HAPPY HOUR FLIX is a podcast all about the movies you love and love to talk about. A nostalgic look at what we grew up watching and how they still impact us today.
Have you ever pondered over the deeper meanings and cultural impact of the 1975 classic movie, 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'? Join hosts Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy as we dissect this cinematic tour de force, alongside our esteemed guest, renowned actor Timothy V Murphy. Timothy's breadth of experience and unique insights are a boon to our exploration of this film's many layers - from its memorable cast led by Jack Nicholson, to its poignant storytelling, and intriguing political themes.
Of course, we must toast with our friends over at Misguided Spirits and Nick Miller at The Wolfhound in Astoria, Queens who mixed up our especially wicked cocktail for us today.
today's cocktail:
Nurse Ratch’ed
1oz Misguided Gin
1oz Dolin Genepy
1oz Velvet Falernum
1oz Lime Juice
Shake and strain into cocktail rocks glass, serve on rocks with cherry garnish
...back in the episode, we delve into the complexities of Jack Nicholson's character, whose emotional arc leaves a profound impression. We marvel at the film's masterful storytelling, reminiscent of the golden age of screenwriting in the 50s. Under Timothy's keen eye, we also explore the film's often overlooked political themes that eerily mirror the totalitarian regimes of today. We grapple with the difficult choices faced by the characters, particularly those of Nurse Ratched, who personifies an enigmatic force of evil.
As we wrap up the episode, we reflect on the tragic ending of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and its ties to the turbulent Irish history of the early 20th century. Timothy also shares captivating anecdotes about the power dynamics within a theater company, and his thoughts on the politicization of the Academy Awards. As we bid our guest adieu, we ruminate on the movie's enduring relevance and impact, as well as its influence on the craft of filmmaking. Tune in for an unforgettable journey into the heart of a cinematic classic.
A quick reminder, no matter where you are listening to us, if you could rate us and drop us a review on Apple Podcasts, we’d be so grateful - it really helps us spread the good vibes. Thank you!
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is produced by James Allerdyce and Lori Kay, and hosted by Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy.
Main Title is by Johnny Mineo.
Happy Hour Flix | Movies You Love
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is a podcast all about the movies you love and love to talk about. A nostalgic look at what we grew up watching and how they still impact us today.
Have you ever pondered over the deeper meanings and cultural impact of the 1975 classic movie, 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'? Join hosts Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy as we dissect this cinematic tour de force, alongside our esteemed guest, renowned actor Timothy V Murphy. Timothy's breadth of experience and unique insights are a boon to our exploration of this film's many layers - from its memorable cast led by Jack Nicholson, to its poignant storytelling, and intriguing political themes.
Of course, we must toast with our friends over at Misguided Spirits and Nick Miller at The Wolfhound in Astoria, Queens who mixed up our especially wicked cocktail for us today.
today's cocktail:
Nurse Ratch’ed
1oz Misguided Gin
1oz Dolin Genepy
1oz Velvet Falernum
1oz Lime Juice
Shake and strain into cocktail rocks glass, serve on rocks with cherry garnish
...back in the episode, we delve into the complexities of Jack Nicholson's character, whose emotional arc leaves a profound impression. We marvel at the film's masterful storytelling, reminiscent of the golden age of screenwriting in the 50s. Under Timothy's keen eye, we also explore the film's often overlooked political themes that eerily mirror the totalitarian regimes of today. We grapple with the difficult choices faced by the characters, particularly those of Nurse Ratched, who personifies an enigmatic force of evil.
As we wrap up the episode, we reflect on the tragic ending of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and its ties to the turbulent Irish history of the early 20th century. Timothy also shares captivating anecdotes about the power dynamics within a theater company, and his thoughts on the politicization of the Academy Awards. As we bid our guest adieu, we ruminate on the movie's enduring relevance and impact, as well as its influence on the craft of filmmaking. Tune in for an unforgettable journey into the heart of a cinematic classic.
A quick reminder, no matter where you are listening to us, if you could rate us and drop us a review on Apple Podcasts, we’d be so grateful - it really helps us spread the good vibes. Thank you!
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is produced by James Allerdyce and Lori Kay, and hosted by Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy.
Main Title is by Johnny Mineo.
Happy Hour Flix | Movies You Love
In a movie where the person you're supposed to root for admits to statutory rape in the first 10 minutes and then never gets mentioned again. It's one flew over the cuckoo's nest. Let's go, let's see a movie. The year it is 1975 and we have an eight-time Oscar-winning film here, considered by many to be one of the best films ever made 1975, also coming out this year's Rocky Horror Picture Show, the Passenger, barry Linden, nashville, dog Day Afternoon, monty Python and the Holy Grail and, of course, jaws. This is a one-flu over the cuckoo's nest. I'm gonna admit I'd not seen this movie in probably ten years before last night, so it took me a minute to kinda jump back in. But, man, it is a very good movie. With me, as always, is co-host Matt Mundy. Matt, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm great man, Even after just the ride that that movie is. I just re-watched it recently too. It is just so beautiful.
Speaker 1:It really is. I mean it just kinda. It says a whole lot and it is a very big political statement that I don't think I really got when I first watched this when I was younger.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so much I missed. There's so much I missed early on. It's just an amazing, perfect film for reviewing because there's so many layers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean really so many layers, Really a true art film. And, of course, we are joined today by our very special guest. You guys will know him from a very impressive acting resume that includes scenes dealing, performances and hit shows like Westworld, True Detective, you know, blockbuster films like National Treasure, Book of Secrets and Lone Ranger and, of course, Sons of Anarchy, where he won 2013 BuzzFocus Readers' Choice Award for Best Villain our friend and amazing actor, Timothy V Murphy Tim, great to have you here, man.
Speaker 3:Same here, guys. Love being with you.
Speaker 1:How are you doing today? Everything starting off okay, having a good chill morning.
Speaker 3:I am, yeah. Got the kids after their summer camp, got the wife off to work and now I'm chilling with the boys. Basically, yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1:Now that they're all out of here, it is also a great time to go ahead and bring up our cocktail for this episode. This cocktail was designed by our friend Nick over at Wolfhound. Wolfhound is in Astoria. You can follow Nick as at NickSpaceMan. He calls this one a nurse ratcheted which you designed for today. Tim, do you want to? Do you want to? I know, first of all, tim, I think, a hot take here. You're an Irishman, so we know you're into whiskey and, I assume, guinness. So we made sure we set you up for success here and got you a great gin drink. I love it. We went full-on English on you. Just hope you know, just to make sure you know we love you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. I mean quin. It wasn't a tonic, it was quinine in the to go with the gin and tonic that they used to drink in India during the colonial period to keep the malaria away and the mosquitoes away.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, and if you ever drink tonic by itself, it's not like seltzer water, which is downright awesome. It is. You know, tonic is a horror show of a drink if you drink it by itself.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go off on a tangent here for a hot second and before we get back to the cocktail, I love tonic. Really. You like tonic, just straight up as is. I do, and I'm just this is not sponsored, but I just want to throw this out there. In the summer I have a new favorite drink. It is cold brew over ice, with tonic and an orange peel.
Speaker 1:That sounds disgusting. Where did you come?
Speaker 2:up with that. I was lost and I lost a bet. That is no, it is ridiculous. I was seeing a friend's show out in Long Island and, anyway, the only things out there were super fru-fru coffee drinks and I was like, can I just get a cold? You know, just a cold brew coffee. And they're like, would you like it with orange and tonic? And I just said, sure, I live on the edge. And it was awesome. I haven't turned back. I actually was drinking it before I came in today.
Speaker 1:No way, dude. That is crazy. Tim, have you ever tried cold brew with tonic?
Speaker 3:No, I'm from Kerry in Ireland. We don't usually drink that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Just very coffee. I may have a last name, Mundy, but I think I just gave my Irish card back.
Speaker 1:Tim, all right. So what do we got If people want to make this drink at home and drink along with us, for the nurse ratcheted. What are we doing here?
Speaker 3:Well, one ounce of misguided gin, one ounce of doulin or doulin genetti.
Speaker 1:And this is a great time to interrupt be like I'm having you do this because I can't pronounce half the shit on this list and neither can I.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right One ounce of velvet Valernum and one ounce of lime juice. Now you shake and strain into cocktail rocks, glass, serve on the rocks with cherry garnish included in bag. And I think if you drink enough of them, you might think you're back in Ireland. So, fucking, it might be a bad way to call you.
Speaker 1:I love that we ended up with a gin drink for you, because I feel like the only thing I want to do with you is just get fucked up on whiskey, like I would just like to do, like a bourbon night. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Well, you could drink bourbon, being from Missouri and I could drink whiskey, being from County Kerry in Ireland.
Speaker 2:Great. Now, there you go. I'll just drink my fricking tonic in the corner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you drink your cold brew and whatever tonic concoction you're doing, feeling the love. So, Tim, I text you and this is a. This is a movie that's near and dear to you. I asked, like, what's a movie when it's on in the hotel that you'll always turn on because you travel, a lot working, so why? Why? Cuckoo's Nest?
Speaker 3:I don't know, I've always. I mean, I grew up, you know, 1975. I was 15. In my teenage years we saw the most amazing movies. You went to the theater. You saw the I mean a horror movie with Jaws that year, as you said, you know, I mean Barry Lyndon was not a great Kubrick Movie, but it was shot in Ireland and it looked beautiful and it has its own beauty, you know. And and then, of course, one floor of the Cuckoo's Nest. I remember reading the book. I think it was by Ken Keezy, one of the, the, the, the, the, the beat kind of generation writers, and I actually didn't think much of the book, and usually the book is better than the film. And then I saw the film because I heard a lot about it. It was about to come out and they were saying it's going to be good and all that. And, oh my God, it was so much better than the book. I found the book boring and it was like Jack Nicholson was just, you know, so alive and so.
Speaker 1:I mean these movies in the 70s with Jack Nicholson. Anything he is in is just, I mean just over the top fears Like he's just crushing Unbelievable.
Speaker 3:Unbelievable, Like I mean I saw, you know I think, got bad reviews that year. Missouri Breaks yeah With, with, with, with Nicholson and Brando. You know Brando dressed up as a woman and killing people and stuff and I mean the movies that were making were like fucking and the actors were just. I suppose those actors were given an opportunity to really show, show themselves, which not many actors are allowed to do anymore.
Speaker 1:I mean, the cast is incredible. But one thing I think Ken Casey hated this movie, didn't he? He didn't, he's never watched it.
Speaker 3:Are you serious?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's like urban legend that he, like he's, he hated the movie, he hated the direction Milo's was taking it, directed by, obviously, the amazing, oh my.
Speaker 3:God, his last name, Milo Swarman. I was like his last name escaped me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he, but he, he was so Ken Casey. He thought it was going in such a bad direction. He was did not agree with what they were doing, because the movie was the book is from the chief's perspective, I believe. Yeah, so I've not read the book that usually I've read. I've read quite a few of the classics, but I've not read this one in this.
Speaker 3:It's not a classic. When I was 15, I was by board, but then I was a 15 year old, so fuck it, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:I don't think he's ever so. The urban legend, or whatever, says he's only ever seen part of it and he accidentally turned it on at a hotel and watch part. As soon as he realized what it was, he turned it off.
Speaker 3:God. And then again, kirk Douglas was already pissed off that he was in the league, because I think he played the lead on Broadway.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And his son produced it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and his son didn't cast him.
Speaker 3:I didn't cast him. He got the rights to the work.
Speaker 1:So he was. He started it on Broadway, right yeah. And who? Who starred as Billy little Billy on Broadway? Gene Wilder, oh, that's right. Oh my God who.
Speaker 3:I love yeah.
Speaker 1:It was incredible. It was incredible the only care only cast member that from Broadway that made it into the film.
Speaker 2:Danny DeVito, danny DeVito, danny DeVito. That's amazing. He's the only one.
Speaker 1:Everyone else didn't make it and he anyway. But yeah, he, michael Douglas played, or Kirk Douglas, sorry, he played the very different. Douglas played the McMurphy, right Played the Murphy on Broadway yeah exactly and wanted to probably got the rights to the book. Wanted to do it was insisting was his thing, it was going to be his role and then just could never get it produced and aged out and his son got the rights to it. Well and it's crazy too.
Speaker 2:So that is like in. So that was like 61 when that, when they did it on Broadway and it ran for like five, six months and then they sent it to Milo Shformin to look at the screenplay, to try to immediately do it because they couldn't get anybody to, you know, give him any money. And then for 10 years there was no back and forth between Milo and the Douglass is. And when they finally did talk, michael was like so why didn't you call my dad back? And he's like what are you talking about? And he figured he just after he said, hey, do you want to do this? And then he didn't send me the screenplay. Come to find out in that 10 years when it, when he sent the screenplay to Milo Shformin, it got held up at the sensors at customs and neither of them, yeah, and neither of them knew that for 10 years. So that's when Michael took over and was like, sorry, dad, I think you aged out.
Speaker 1:And I mean how heartbreaking, if you like, have a role that you did at that time also 1960s, 1950s, broadway, like I mean that is, you're talking height of popularity, that's like competing oh yeah, you got to be competing with Hollywood, like I mean, you are a fucking star if you were on this.
Speaker 1:And then you just he was what? In his fifties when they made the film, I mean I don't know actually his age, but he was they obviously thought he was too old. But could you imagine this role, even by a brilliant actor like that? But being 50 years old it just totally changes the dynamic. He needs to be young and dangerous and Jack Nicholson is perfect for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tim, did you see the last detail?
Speaker 3:I did, which I love this. Well, that was the two sailors, wasn't it? Yes, it was, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I love because and you've seen five easy pieces and easy writer right.
Speaker 3:I mean the scenes are that. I mean some of those movies they're brilliant to watch, but they wouldn't. You know, they went on too long or whatever. But there's certain scenes in those movies that are like fucking phenomenal, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and apparently it was. And the reason I asked specifically about the last detail I didn't know this, but apparently Milo Schorman was like I don't know about Jack he's. I've seen him do five easy pieces, easy writer, but I am not sure. And then I think it was Michael Douglas said watch the last detail. And then that's when he realized oh, he's huge, he can do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And you know, when I, when I looked at it, when I looked at that movie way back then, I thought it was quite a complex movie and longer than that. Then, when I watch it, when I watched it again later on, years later, it's quite a simple little movie, you know the story is simple, the scenes are simple, his performance is amazing, but it's like it was not.
Speaker 3:It's not a long movie and it definitely didn't bore me or anything like that, and it's. It's very watchable still, which is great, because some of them don't age well, you know those things, that's a great point.
Speaker 2:I was going to say why do you think it was so? Even being simple that it was, it's still so compelling yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that simplicity now is lost in the movies. If you look at those terrible superhero movies with all their flying around and all this kind of crap, I think that the simpler you can keep something, the better it is. Really. You don't have to be breaking the mold every time, I think. And there were very good writers back then. I mean, the screenwriters back then were amazing. They came from the writers of the 50s, which were amazing. And yeah, they say the great writers are on television or whatever. But who knows where the great writers are coming? But I think great writing great writing is if you can make a simple little story interesting.
Speaker 1:Simple is the hardest thing to do. Yes, you can hide behind spectacle. You can hide behind style.
Speaker 3:You cannot hide behind simplicity no, but I think if you hire the right actors and get a simple script and the dialogue is good and the scenario, I mean it's hard now to get actors like that, because they're not made like that very much anymore.
Speaker 1:I mean we've got to talk about the cast. The cast is incredible. They're big, notable names that are just known for chewing up the scenery, and then some really subtle actors in there too. But I mean you have Danny DeVito in here that is doing amazing. The guy's been incredible his entire career. And Chris Lloyd, I mean Chris Verloyde, I mean these. I could not. If you named three bananas level actors from the 1980s, it's probably going to be Chris Verloyde, danny DeVito and Jack Nicholson.
Speaker 2:You know like they're going to be on the list at least, and then the underappreciated Vincent Scallari as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, but they were just. I've ever been across the board is absolutely crushing on this film. One of the things that was.
Speaker 3:Like it's often said, there are no small parts, and in that movie there actually were no small parts.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the you said simple and the initial, when I was watching this movie and what I remembered from this movie when I was younger because I think I saw this movie and I was, very, like you know, in 10 early teens, my early teens and I didn't get it and I actually didn't think nurse ratchet was a bad person when I first saw it. It just emulated too much of what I was used to in like Catholic school and you know, things like that was just too familiar.
Speaker 3:We all were like that, exactly it was too familiar.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, that's just who that is. I mean you can't fuck with her, she's going to, she's going to snap back. But when I wasn't really certain that Jack Nicholson had an arc. But then watching it this time it is subtle.
Speaker 1:But it is so specific and it comes through in two specific points in the film because his arc for me is an emotional arc, which again is why this movie works, is because it's he starts off as a guy trying to. It's a bad guy, literally arrested for a statutory rape and assault and all these other things and terrible things that he admits that he has no remorse whatsoever. He's just fucking the system over to get into, you know, to get out of work. Detail. That's how it all starts. In the end he is here before before the ultimate twist at the end. He's there to support and make the lives better of these new friends of his right. He like he is sort of a part of this family and he has. He cares for these characters that he's surrounded, like it, and I think the two points. That really solidifies that is both times he could get away.
Speaker 1:Now this might also be a thing that I'm not super into with you know the psychological, you know disease he supposedly has, but he escapes and doesn't run away. He steals a bus and takes all of them out on a fishing trip and then second time he gets the key open, he opens the window but he can't leave. I think these are intentional decisions to tell you that he is a character that cares about these other people and doesn't know. You know he, their satisfaction is the, the, the, the genesis, and what makes him really important as a character. So just, it's such an incredible arc for somebody that starts off so cold and ends up being so warm and he tries to kill Snir, nurse Ratchet, cause what he did, what she did to Billy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was going to say, tim, what I was going to say. Do those moments stand out for you as like two of those big moments the, the ability to get away.
Speaker 3:They do, the ability to get away. And you know, do you realize, the second time, if he doesn't go, he's fucked. Please go, please go.
Speaker 1:The whole time you're like why are you not just out the damn window, man?
Speaker 3:Why did you all just get drunk, you know, and and not the, and just yeah, because he's, he should have gone, but yeah, those, and then you don't see. You know what what I love? You know what I? What I love is I love Jessica Chastain, but she did a movie and I think she went and asked her for it about, about, uh, uh, you know, catching Osama Bin Laden or something.
Speaker 1:Is it the Zero Dark Thirty?
Speaker 3:Yeah so, but then the camera was waiting for her to cry, basically, and you know she's great emotional actress. I love her work actually, but I know it's the director's choice or her choice or the movie or how it was edited or whatever. But it looked like they were just waiting there for her to give her moment of the tears or whatever. You know, there was a one moment like that there. I mean Jack, never I don't think he ever broke down. He always kept the spirit going. That's what I love about, about that character and about Jack's performance and about Mickey Rourke's performance and the wrestler. They're really difficult circumstances. They they bring in humor. It's a very Irish way of dealing with Well it's the defense mechanism, is the struggle.
Speaker 1:I would argue that he does have one moment that he shows you know what I call the countermask like what he presents the world versus what he actually is. And the countermask shows for me when he's laying on the cot right before he gets the electro shock and he's making jokes and stuff, but you can feel, oh no, you do. There's a tangible sense that he's lost it, he's panicking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 3:And that that because of that, that, that moment that really, I mean I even thinking about it makes me emotional here. I'm just okay, I'm, you know you freaking panic when you're. I mean, I remember I suffered from frigging, you know, claustrophobia at one stage and all that right and how I got over was I went down to the deepest frigging cave in Ireland to see if I could get over. But before I went in there to face my demons and my fears, I was joking and laughing and fucking talking a mile a minute. I was as nervous as shit, but I was portraying this thing that you know. So yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:that's why I mean I have a similar thing. I mean you just went full Batman on that, like Nolan. Batman, You're like I'm just going to go down into the bat cave and be engulfed in bats.
Speaker 3:Fuck it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's totally what I was thinking about, okay.
Speaker 3:And I cured myself.
Speaker 1:So fucking cured myself, so fucking. I mean it's so many great and you wanted the things you said about the cast earlier I want to come back to because I think most of this film it was one of those approaches, sort of I guess in the camp of Nashville, in that kind of like world, where it's like improv and go like where they're really just playing and the cameras are just rolling, which is really a scary way to shoot. But I think with this kind of I mean is Sydney Lassick actually had a meltdown. The guy that plays a oh my God, I forget the character's name oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he, literally, they were worried about him, cheswick.
Speaker 1:They were worried about him on set.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, even Louise Fletcher said at one point, the camera, she just assumed the cameras were always rolling, which actually made her relax. She's like I couldn't figure out when they were going to be rolling or not rolling, or when they were taking a rehearsal or it was a take and she had. She was so worked up about it. And then finally she came over to the top and was like well, I was just relaxed, assuming as I was on camera the whole time.
Speaker 3:God, she was amazing, I thought. But like, if you look at Jack and you and you look at the you know and the direct direction, the director and just the movie itself was like you know, yeah, there there's, there's a guy who's trying to, who's trying to cheat the system, basically you know he's trying to, but it's the system, it's the big man, it's the bad guy. Really the system is bad. So why shouldn't I, a bad guy like me, fuck with it? You know?
Speaker 3:And he thinks he thinks he can get away with that, you know. And then he wants you know he's for his fellow men. You know these are good men, these are kind, these are sensitive, these are lovely people. Fuck the machine, fuck the big guys up there with the money and the government and everybody trying to control us. You know we can be buddies, we can defeat this system. But the nicer you are, the softer you are, the the more sensitive you are. You're going to get fucked.
Speaker 1:That's a great transition to be like do you get? What do you get? What do you guys think the like I mean not like the higher metaphor, but this is a metaphoric movie Like this movie is straight up like 1984. For me, like George Orwell, this thing has something to say. What do you guys think the kind of, the larger message and metaphor of this is Tell me you want to take that one yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, if you look at this day and age, right, you can't criticize anything. If you criticize something, if you criticize a government, a totalitarian government, you know, not just even within America. If you criticize Bush, number two, about the Iraq or Afghan war, back then, like the Dixie Chicks, like a, like Mara, that comedian said, those guys were brave, or those guys if you criticize and if, if you were oppressed, if you were in, if you're a journalist and questioned, questioned anything, Rumsfeld would call you a traitor and dismiss you or whatever. Nowadays it's a way worse even. I mean you can't like, you can't criticize.
Speaker 3:I went on. I won't say why it's criticized or anything, but you know I love human rights and I'm always for the underdog and I believe people should be kind to each other and love each other. I can't. You know, Americans should band together right now. Americans should ban the people in America should band together, not point fingers at each other, because there's a lot of totalitarian regimes around the world banding together right now. And the democratic countries should band together because, as bad as they might become, they're not half as bad as those other places, especially for freedom of speech or not being afraid that, like you can criticize. You can criticize the fuck out of Biden or Trump, right, but you probably won't get killed or be put in jail for it, you know. But if you do that to some other countries around the world, you're going to be in trouble.
Speaker 2:We'll never hear from you again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, even in this country, like it's you, I can't. I have to watch what I say online, because if I don't watch what I say online, I might not get a job in one of the studios or I might not get there or people might take me up as being not not on their side, so you're against them, so some weird shit like that that you can't even criticize or have an argument or anything. Really, you're best keeping your fucking mouth shut. But even if you keep your mouth shut, some people might say, oh, he didn't speak up about that, so he's one of them.
Speaker 1:But I mean I mean, I think you know the discussion, the days of discussion are not here currently and I do miss, I mean, in my lifetime I'm a millennial, you know, I was born in the 80s, it's like so, you know, like it is, it's felt like a very brief window during my adult life where you could actually have a conversation about something and not be a win or lose. You know there's no like middle ground of, I think, this well, what do you think about this? And kind of moderation is gone, and I will say that I mean you. I think this film echoes it and I think that is what is trying to say in many degrees, and I think what you're kind of commenting on. It reminds me a lot of like McCarthyism. It reminds me a lot of, I mean, and that's what Milo said, or Milo, I don't know how you pronounce it- but that's what the director said he was like I.
Speaker 1:people are saying don't do this film because it's you know, the book is too much of this and it's not gonna. It's too fantastical, it's not gonna work. And he's like what are you kidding? I lived this. He's like I lived through the communist regime. I was with people that told you this is how you think, this is what you do. And that is real to him. And I think that that is sort of what this movie is saying.
Speaker 2:for me Interesting for both of you on the political side, cause I that's, I totally resonates and I thought my reaction was more of all around the fact that everybody in there, except for a few, as we find out in that critical moment, are in there voluntarily. And I realized, you know, this is not a prison, these guys weren't forced to be here. So to me, I saw it through a lens of our inability to make the right choice. And we, you know, look at Nurse Ratchet, and this goes back to what again? To Echo Milosh, where he was like I didn't see her as evil, I saw her as the instrument of evil. And so here we are as people.
Speaker 1:This is a great quote. By the way, that is a really great quote for Nurse Ratchet. That is dead on how I feel about her, yeah.
Speaker 2:And she, like, I would like to hear it comes across and I just you know.
Speaker 1:She feels like the kind of character. I'm sorry to interrupt where she walks out of this hospital and she is, you know, completely a powerless like sort of person, like she's seeking her power in this venue, where she controls it, and outside of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when she comes in she's dressed in black. Then she changes into her uniform and she's the exact same color as the rest of the place, I didn't notice that.
Speaker 1:What a good decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, every time she comes in, every time she leaves, she's in the same outfit, but in black, even the pill hat. And then, when she's in there, she changes to the white uniform, which is the exact same color as everything else. She becomes part of it, just like they are.
Speaker 1:There's a moment when she comes in after the party and man, the party scene is so great Like the whole time you're like they're fucked. Like there's a moment just in my life, you know and I think most people that you know like you reach the point you're watching them and you see them tip over the edge and you're like, well, you can't clean this up now. You're fucked. Oh yeah, you just crossed the line, you're getting caught now. And for me it's like whenever they open up the door and their shit on the walls.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's that. That breaks the moment. That breaks the moment where they send Turkle Scatman out and you're like, oh, he might save it. He's like, oh, it's just me.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, you know, candy opens up and it's like oh, okay, this is not it's that moment when you're like in college, at least for me and you're like hanging out within a place you're not supposed to be with friends, and you're like, yeah, if we just keep it small and we all just kind of drink and hang out here, we don't fuck anything up. No, we really bother us. And then somebody like smashes something or like ruins the scratchers and he's like son of a bitch, we're gone, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally yeah. It's just that, and it's those little things throughout the movie that I things that shouldn't have gotten out of control every single time just goes out of control, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but yeah, I mean you might say too many things, just don't go right. You know One after the other, you know. So yeah, yeah, like even.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Well, going back to North Ranch, I mean I love, I love that situation where you're nothing outside your organization and then you go into your organization. It's like some of the guys in the Nazi party. They might have been butchers or unemployed frigging laborers or whatever, and then they're like they're soldiers in the SS with a beautiful you know Hugo Boss uniform and stuff and what they can do then. But I was a member of a theater company one time and I remember the artistic directors, a husband and wife, outside that little theater, and they used to have theater classes as well.
Speaker 3:Outside that little theater there were an oddity Like he, dressed in black, with he looked like Count Dracula, with the he'd long gray hair, handsome man with a he'd never put his hands in the sleeves of his coat and this is an LA now a coat, a black coat, right, he'd never put his hands, they'd just be draped over his shoulders and he was this oddity, right.
Speaker 3:And then outside of the theater, right, and his wife was this kind of, you know, like another, like she didn't fit in in the outside world, but inside, in that little box of a theater, they were like the king and queen and every little actor in there treated them like the king and queen and they'd always talk about you know, I don't want to mention names, though, that's why I'm careful and they'd always talk about his great performance, you know, of Hanlid or something Many, many years that he's referring to that, and all the young ladies in the theater. They loved it all. He's handsome and he's their teacher and it was. But it's just like that was their little kingdom, like that was Nars Ratchett's little kingdom. Outside they'd be lining up in the DMV shopping for groceries, people pushing him out of the way, treating them with like as if they're just normal people, but inside, in that little box, they were fucking gods, you know. So it, yeah, just like Nars Ratchett, you know.
Speaker 2:That's a great, great point, you know.
Speaker 1:They, and how did that not know? You did like theater too, Tim. I thought you were only a TV and film guy.
Speaker 3:Oh, I've done it all, and I'd even before I was an actor. I've done a million other things, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know your whole like description of that is totally done on. But it reminds me of like, cause I went to a conservatory theater program. And it reminds me of like your movement teacher. Like, because you teach a lot of these. You know schools teach movement, so you do all kinds of different.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, it's basically like rolling around on the floor my first year.
Speaker 1:we used to I mean, I got a few buddies and we just like play, like basically it was like playing, which is what it is, that's what it's supposed to be. We like play like Spider-Man and throw fireballs at each other and we're just fucking nerds. It was just dumb as hell. But it's like if you meet your movement teacher who, like wears all crushed velvet and, like you know, odd colors and has all the different mood rings on in the room, that's like their domain. But you meet them at like you know fucking Walmart, you know they're. It's like what's this crazy lady doing here with all these candles?
Speaker 3:Who's that? Fucking okay, exact, exact. Who's that homeless odd person. You know what do you?
Speaker 1:think I mean that's a lot of candles just for a normal person Like. I don't think you should have that many, too many flames.
Speaker 2:I will turn that music down and I will watch the World Series. It's the same, I mean similar experience with me. I mean I think we all have those stories and it's just like, yeah, I had an artistic director who just I was did a program with under him and oh, when he walked into the room, I mean his shit did not stink, and it was. I am the most powerful human and you are wrong for everything. And then to your point, Steve, then seeing him some years later, you know, in an Irish pub, and I was like, oh, what's up how you doing, and then just continued on with my conversation.
Speaker 1:All right, hey, quiz time here. Academy Awards this one eight Academy Awards. You guys wanna guess on what which one's it won?
Speaker 3:Eight Definitely best actor, obviously. Yep, that's one Best film, I think.
Speaker 1:He won Best Picture, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, best Director yes, and Screenplay yeah, yep. Ok, we're not Everyone in nearly half way.
Speaker 1:That's for, that's for. Oh, it actually won one. It won one nine, nine.
Speaker 3:I have those for the days where you did not win the best film without winning best director and best actor as well, whereas now they see it's so political, or we give that to them and that you know it's ridiculous now.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and to your point. It's just like are you kidding me? Like Louise Fletcher and Jack Nicholson, they absolutely like give it to him, you know, and I'll support supporting actor. And Brad Brad Dorough Is a little. He won for best supporting that year.
Speaker 1:I'm checking this out because I said yeah, it said eight and I have nine on my list, so I just want to figure out what's right. Interesting, why you do, yeah, well why you do that Something.
Speaker 2:You said because they did win an Oscar for screenwriting. And Tim, you were talking earlier just about the level of screenwriting. Yeah, and there was a moment that I totally so it's one of my favorite moments in the movie, where he offers him the gum and Chief talks for the first time. You remember that, yeah. And then, yeah, yeah, and you see it on McMurphy's face trying to register it. So he's like what do I do? I guess I'll, I'll nudge him again and I'll offer him another piece, and yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was, you know, and I saw a brief little piece about this where everybody came to Jack and said, oh my gosh, that was a brilliant choice to make, to just hit him again and nudge him and give him another and see if you could get him to talk by asking him another piece. And he's like you freaking, kidding me, that was in the script. And, sure enough, you know, the amazing screenwriter who then appropriately won was a Bo Goldman and he he, it was written in the script Nudges him on the elbow twice, offers him a second and just waits for him to speak. And it's like, oh my God, it was in there.
Speaker 1:OK, news news update. I have an update here. Ok, according to the deeply vetted and always correct Wikipedia, I I was incorrect this is one, one, two, three, four, five Oscars. It had a few more nominations, but you were all correct here, tim. It did one best picture, one best director, one best actor, best actress for Jack Nicholson and Louise Fletcher, and it also won best screenplay. It was also nominated for best supporting actor for Brad Dorf, also nominated for. Nominated for best cinematography let's come back to that in one second Best film editing and best original score, but it did not win for any of those.
Speaker 1:This movie had three cinematographers, one of which a former Oscar winner, that got fired like early on. Yeah, I don't know if you guys, but he the reason was because he and Milo's were not getting along. Again, they wanted a very improv movie. They were very much working for. Like seemed like a world where it was like three hundred and sixty degree coverage, where you're like or as much as possible, where the actors could play and improv and the camera was not dictating the what was done.
Speaker 1:I actually really appreciate this. It's not, you know, always the best style of filmmaking, but in this film, where it's like a you know. You know it's a psychiatric ward, a hospital. Basically it's a contained area. Yeah, I mean, the cinematic version of these scenes, of these group scenes, is by far the least important part, and I'm sure a cinematographer would disagree with me. But the most important part is seeing the actors work together in the moments, play and feel real and out of control or in control. That's what's important. The lighting needs to be as good as possible, but it should definitely take a backseat to the scene, the setting, the performance and the staging, and that is the last thing a cinematographer wants to hear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it wasn't a spaghetti Western night.
Speaker 1:No, yeah. Well, it's not like where you're trying to make it look beautiful and dynamic and controlled.
Speaker 3:And it's not about the image, it's about what's happening in the lens and that is the inner and the energy I think, and yeah, definitely that dogma style that came on later on, the Danish kind of style where the camera is like an emotion. In some ways it's like an emotional thing and there's a certain feel of that to some of those scenes.
Speaker 1:And some scenes need that you know like for instance you've got the scene at the end where he comes in and he's been lobotomized. Here's the spoiler, which is the true tragedy of the movie you don't really see coming. You know what I mean. Like you think, oh, they're never going to. It really is sort of heartbreaking the way it's revealed.
Speaker 2:I was going to say do you remember? Because I want you to continue that point. But I do want to ask do either of you remember the end? Did it really catch you off guard that much?
Speaker 3:I think, I really think it was so sad really. I mean you basically, yeah, you want, you know, I suppose in the 70s, because of the Vietnam War and because of the Second World War before that, some great movies came out and because of the movement with civil rights and everything going on, you know, there was great creativity coming out, and there was great creativity was like no, the good guy doesn't always win. In fact, usually the good guy loses when he fights the system, you know, which is really the honest way. But before that you'd have, you know, in the 60s you'd have true grit, where John Wayne won an Academy Award who never, would never, lose anything in his life, you know. But to see the movies in the 70s, the good guy usually got fucked, you know, in very often anyway, that's a great, great point.
Speaker 2:That's why I wanted to ask Sorry, yeah, the first time.
Speaker 1:I usually write any screenplay, like if anything that I really care about, usually the ending is usually pretty dark, like it's a very 1970s sort of ending and that's what I always really love. I've always. But audiences right now don't really. And there is something to this. Like you know, if you're going to create some art, don't you want to somewhat be inspirational, like parables are, you know, great, like they exist in the Bible, but they also create a sort of paralympic parallel. Oh my God. They create sort of a dichotomy of emotion where some people take them too seriously and don't take the point and take the tone over the point. So you know, overall, like I feel it is, I remember when I saw it this time like the first time, I was like holy shit, and that was the thing that I remembered from it is that it got lobotomized and I didn't really remember the context or why or what it stood for.
Speaker 1:But this definitely for me this time stands for that overall suppression of revolutionary. You know. That is that you know, when we can no longer win with reason, rhyme or, you know, or guile, or guile, we win with power and that is always the weakest. It's the rule. By fear, not with you know, not with inspiration kind of tactic. And that, to me, stood out very strongly this time, and you know even the titles.
Speaker 1:One flew over the cuckoo's nest the whole time. You expect it's going to be Jack Nicholson, it's going to be his time here and what he takes away from it and then the fact that it in the end ends up being the chief is sort of a really. I mean, it's a deep, deep cut emotionally and you feel they let it linger on that shot of him running away into the darkness for so long and Christopher Lloyd is just losing his mind, like they're cutting back between the two of them, like with elation, like it does. You know, it's that kind of opportunity of hope. I think, without getting too academic and bullshitty about all of this, that's kind of what I think. You know it does have that feeling of like, no, when you can, you must do. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You can't just sit on your haunches because they will just crush you right and because I want to actually go in that direction, but I want to make sure that you finish your other thought, unless you wrapped it up in that which, if you, let me keep talking, matt, I'm going to talk for a whole damn time.
Speaker 1:This is also true. I'll never shut up, do you want?
Speaker 2:me to keep going. I'll keep going, no, no.
Speaker 1:I want to. No, no, no, no, hold on, I'll keep going.
Speaker 2:No, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Well, I just want to make sure, because what you said really resonated with that moment where the so after chief and I, matt, realized that they're allies, they're friends, and he and Matt comes over to, and what then is mirrored by the sadness that we were just talking about. When, in the first scene, matt comes over to chief's bed and then, of course, at the end, it's chief going over to Matt's bed, but in this moment he talks about his dad and he goes like my papa was, you know, really big and he did as he pleased. And that's what he did. He was really big and he did as he pleased. And that's why they're working, you know, that's why they worked on him, and the way they worked on him is the way they're working on you, and it's like that's what you remember.
Speaker 2:That moment he's like you're bigger than me and Jack or Matt is like what are you talking about? And he said, no, I remember my dad. And so, to your point, one flew over the cuckoo's nest. It's a beautiful setup that they all did in the redoing it with the screenplay rather than the book's point of view, and then also with just the whole direction of it, saying, oh, this is that moment where Matt learns his lesson and learns. Oh, I better be careful, or they're going to keep working on me. And then the true tragedy is what it is.
Speaker 1:It's true late, I mean, when he recognizes it. It's in that other scene where he comes out and he's like you guys knew the whole time that they controlled. When I got the hell out of here. It's like, and it's very heartbreaking.
Speaker 3:It was yeah, and then he gets pissed off with them.
Speaker 1:They didn't even tell him, and it's like watching the teacher get pissed at the students. You know what I mean. You know that it's not right, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel. You can tell they're in a bad spot and they shouldn't be doing what they're doing, but at the same time you can empathize with how they got there.
Speaker 3:But like it was a good ending in a way. I mean that the chief did kill him, you know, and suffocate him. Because during our fight for independence, a bunch of you know there were into the Irish history. There were teachers, there weren't soldiers, there were revolutionaries. Is there any such thing anymore, you'd wonder? Because most revolutionaries were not soldiers at all, they actually fought against the soldiers and whatever.
Speaker 3:But in 1916, you know, a bunch you know took up arms against the British Brown in Ireland, you know, and all the leaders were executed. They were all shot. And if they had not shot those revolutionaries it probably would have. If they sent them off to a long time in prison or whatever, you know, it would have dissipated any kind of revolution, any other thinking of the Irish people rising up to revolt. But when they killed all those revolutionaries, when they shot them, it made the Irish, who were not the majority of the people there did not support the 1916 rising.
Speaker 3:But and their letters were amazing to their sisters and their brothers and their parents before they were executed, like they were brave men Before they were being executed it was like, hopefully my blood now will me, you know, giving my blood will gain independence for Ireland. They went to their deck with honour. Most people like the letters are just amazing to me. But what the connection to you know to die for Ireland like was not nowadays, when, if you said that to a young person die for Ireland it was like, no, are you fucking kidding me? Or whatever you know and eat, eat I mean Bobby Sands later on. But just that way of thinking.
Speaker 3:But when, when the chief killed him and he looked like he had escaped the thing, everybody was cheering. Or if they had killed him, I think everybody would be cheering. But if they had seen him as a lobotomy victim, there was no hope basically, and in a way there was no hope for humanity type of thing that the machine or the more powerful one always wins, but in that moment they'd beat the machine in some ways, or he beat the machine or except the chief digits. What I love about that moment, that's a great, great point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I love about that moment, at least for me, is I don't know at least even I don't know what that I don't know what the intention was for the moment of killing him. Really I don't know what I truly think. The metaphor quote unquote is water matters. I feel right about it, like I feel good about it, like I'm feeling good that he killed him out of like mercy or something. You know. It's like Lenny in of mice and men. You know what I mean. Like it's got that kind of like parallel, but I can't define why or what and that is really why that's a true complex moment in human emotions, really impactful. That's why it's very powerful. It's more powerful than him running away. It just by being followed by him running away. The running away is what I carry through the action, but it starts. If he just left him and ran away, I wouldn't remember.
Speaker 3:Yeah or definitely.
Speaker 2:I mean, he hugs him. He hugs him and then has that last line let's go. And so it's that thing. To your point earlier about had everybody else seen him lobotomized? But he's like no, I'm going to leave. I'm actually going to do what we talked about, which is get out of here, and the only way to take you with me is in spirit.
Speaker 1:You know, the rest of you is gone and it's just oh, heartbreaking you guys wanna know a couple of facts that I got pulled up here about the film.
Speaker 1:Give me some Kind of here in the end here. So Jack Nicholson, the character in the book, is described completely differently. He showed up with a beard actually in the beginning, thinking that's how he thought the character would look and Milo's was like absolutely not had him shave it off. And in fact at the end of the film Milo's and Jack Nicholson weren't even talking to each other. They were going through the DP for notes Like they really had a big. They had a big difference of opinion on how the mode and it all came down to the motivations of Jack Nicholson's character. Oh, yeah, yeah and yeah, mcmill, yeah and McMurphy, and he couldn't. Yeah, and they also. I don't know if you noticed this, but Nurse Ratchet never calls him McMurphy. She always fucks his name up every single time. She calls him a different name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think it's McMurray or something like that. I tried clocked that this watch first and I was like, oh, that's a smart choice, because most people won't probably catch that, and to your point, he calls her by her first name once. Well, the book doesn't have a first name for her, the actor Chol. She has it. Louise made it up. Right, yeah, she made it up what she made.
Speaker 2:What was it, do you know? Oh, before I say it, do you remember?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I ruined it. I ruined it, oh man.
Speaker 3:I ruined it. It's fine.
Speaker 2:it's fine, I'm sorry, don't watch Sixth Sense next to Steve. Oh, that guy's dead. Oh, hey, no idea.
Speaker 3:It looks like. What amazes me is her career after that wasn't great. I mean, she should have been everything after that. You know, yeah, but no, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is. Did you know that Dr Spivey was actual doctor and he was the guy that ran? I think they filmed this, and was it? It was in Oregon somewhere, portland.
Speaker 2:McMurray it was in Oregon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in Oregon yeah, and he ran that hospital and they were having trouble finding a hospital because Milos only wanted to shoot on location. He did not want to shoot on stage because he believed in location shooting. And they couldn't find a hospital because they lobotomized patients, they shocked these patients. It's not a good look on a hospital, so no hospital to support them. This doctor said yes, dr Dean Brooks, he plays the doctor in the film. He's great. He's great. It's it improved. Apparently it was only two takes the scene he did with in the beginning, with Jack Nicholson. He didn't know what the hell he was doing. He's just a normal person, he's a doctor. And he did two takes of it and that was it and it worked out.
Speaker 2:Amazing, yeah, two takes and only one take when.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't and sorry, sorry, sorry, before we go to the end, it wasn't that they gave it out of. Initially I was like, oh well, he's gonna give it out of some kind of hubris Like he wants to be in the movie. He actually wanted to do it because he wanted to use it as a diagonal or like some kind of example for his patients of what bad is Like. So he wasn't like some kind of and maybe there were some hubris in there that wasn't purely hubris.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, oh no, all I was gonna say was that that's which is amazing, that it's two takes and it was only one take and kind of get it. It's when Chief runs into the main hallway with the entire like waterworks in his hands, they had like they had like five cameras rolling and they're like we gotta get it. And that was just one take and then they got it. I did wanna point out this is not a fact, so, but this is just me how I process the movie. Is that in the beginning of the movie, the opening shot right, you remember? It's over, there's this just car from a distance, and it's golden hour, it's either, or at least it feels like it, so it's either sunrise or sunset, but it's just like very cold and in the distance is a huge mountain and then it's planes in the foreground and then there's a car. You see the headlights moving towards the camera, and then at the end, what is it? It's rolling hills away and you've got a man running away from the camera and the hills are just low enough behind in the background that you can finally see the sky, and it's like the first time they really kind of focus on that.
Speaker 2:The rest of it, the. Anytime you would look up, it was either surrounded by fence or you had the I mean, you had the moment in the boat, but they're still surrounded by water. You can't get away from anything and there it is. At the end, they take that beginning image they have and transpose it, whereas instead of a mountain blocking it, you can see the full horizon. Just, I don't know. That's just kind of hit me that I didn't. I missed the first time, but emotionally must have gotten.
Speaker 1:Another fact a lot of methodactic going on in this movie and there one of the things in here Danny this is not necessarily method acting, but Danny DeVito was kept away from his girlfriend at the time. Rio Perman Ultimately ends up marrying him from Cheers, rio Perman.
Speaker 3:Plays a.
Speaker 1:I forget her character name, but she's a big, prominent character in Cheers and apparently he developed himself an imaginary friend as a coping mechanism, to the point where people were really concerned about him because he was talking to his imaginary friend all the time.
Speaker 2:That, yep, I believe it. I mean, he was like Cheswick. I see you, I'm going to, I'm gonna raise you one.
Speaker 1:And again he was like Dr Brooks guy, that's the doctor and the thing. He went to the doctor and said like hey, this is a problem. And the doctor said, as long as you can recognize that this is not a real person, that's not a problem. So, but the doctor actually did more work on this too. I can't I'm trying to find the actor's name, but the guy who played the super intellectual guy they opened up the opening scene and he's like my wife is cheating on me and you're perfect. Oh, the character Harman. Yeah, renfeld, I think, is very I'm sorry I'm just gonna butcher this, but his, I think his last name is Renfeld. Does that remember it from, like the Dracula book? Anyway, he died. The reason there were a lot in the book. Apparently he's a lot more prominent character. Do you remember that Tim him being? Do you remember him from the book? Is he a lot more prominent?
Speaker 3:I forget the book now. I mean, I barely got through that book, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sorry, you're our resident expert, so whatever you say has to go.
Speaker 3:I do not have fond memories of reading that book in a mobile home in Pallibon in the North Kerry. It wasn't a dad of an enjoyable read, I must say.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. You're right, it's like Redfield. That's the actor. Redfield. He played Hardy and you had a little. Did you want to continue with the fact on that Well?
Speaker 1:so he usually. There were a lot more scenes with him. He was a lot more prominent character, very strong character, came out early but apparently the man was dying of leukemia so he could not actually be in the film after they were already started. So and how that was discovered is Dr Brooks again noticed him doing something or whatever and said, hey, I think you have a problem. And look at this, it turns out he had very, a very bad course of leukemia and was yeah, and he ended up dying shortly after the film. So very, very tragic, very tragic sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Well, in the middle of that tragedy, the, I want to point out one of my favorite moments with him is on the boat. They're about to take the fishing boat out and Jack's caught, or Mack is caught and he looks at the harbour master and he goes oh well, we're from the institution, this is Dr Cheswick, this is Dr, and he goes and he names everybody Dr, dr, dr. He gets to Harding and he goes.
Speaker 1:Mr yes, Dr, dr, dr. He does is fabulous, it's so good, it is such a fabulous detail. I was like you're such a dick. Back to the method. Acting I think is my last fact. They called for McMurphy to leap on a guard and kiss him and during the filming Milo's decided the guard's reaction wasn't strong, wasn't good enough, and so he told him to jump on the other guard. And then he did and in the camera it was a total like out of the spur of the moment sort of thing, and you can see, before they cut away, that they're like. The other actor starts punching Jack Nicholson. Ha ha, ha, ha ha ha. So he starts fighting back on him.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. And one last thing for me on an impression and because I do, I want to get final impressions from you guys as well the one thing that hit me that I think I didn't notice and then forgot it was the same year. So do you remember the moment? It's right after he kisses him and this is at the top of the movie Mac looks up and he's in the foyer and he looks up or four years, sorry, and uh, that's okay, you can be, you can be.
Speaker 2:I'm the weak condo sender, no judgment here and as I drink my coffee in tonic and he looks up from the lobby and then it's like this huge staircase that goes around and around and there's people that look over, kind of judging from the top, and I don't know if you remember, it happens very briefly in their sunglasses or whatever and they just look over at him from this spiral staircase. I immediately went oh my God, that's the same scene from when Frank and Ferdinand is about to introduce Eddie in no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in Rocky Horror, and you look up and it's just like everybody in their beautiful outfits and their sunglasses looking down.
Speaker 1:You think it's the?
Speaker 2:same set. It's not the same set at all, but it's that same moment of looking up and the reaction to the camera's reaction, how it frames it, and I was like it's. I haven't gone back to watch it, but emotionally I had the exact same reaction.
Speaker 1:So you're positing that Rocky Horror Picture Show stole that from One Fleur of the Coons?
Speaker 2:No, no because they came out the same year. The same year, yeah, so I just think there's something in the vocabulary at the time that was shared and then was being expressed simultaneously in that moment. Holy crap, man. So that's just something that stuck out for me as we go through. Are there some final thoughts or something that stuck out with you, timothy?
Speaker 3:Just how entertaining Jack Nicholson is and what a presence on the screen. Everything he does is great. There's always a great sense of humor there. It doesn't matter what he's saying or what he's doing. There's an enjoyment to watching him and he's sensitive with his sense of humor, which is great. He's always playing very well. Very often he's playing the underdog or whatever the misunderstood type of rebel guy. He's never part of the system usually or part of normal people. As a person himself and as an actor, he's not a normal person. His characters are not normal people. They say things that normal people want to say but aren't brave enough to say, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Here's the real question Does this movie hold up? I just watched it again for the first time. Matt, I'll start with you. Does this movie hold up for you? More than ever, more than ever, more powerful than ever, tim, does this movie hold up for you?
Speaker 3:I think it does. It looks a lot simpler than what I remembered when I watched it originally. I think movies then were simpler and I think that's a testimony to the writing in that there was a certain formula where you have a start, beginning and an end. You have a high point or a low point, and that's a problem, and that's resolved. Then it comes to the big climax and that's resolved and then it goes up. There was a formula to writing movies in those days and it really worked in this case. Nowadays you'd be very lucky to see a movie that works from beginning to end. Usually movies nowadays have one good act or two good acts or three good acts, but rarely do they have four good acts or whatever. It was simple, but it was so effective and it still stands up for me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'll jump in and I'll say again I think this movie definitely holds up. I will say it definitely launches in my mind a vertical of films that come across the next bit of time. I think without this, films like Awakenings don't happen. Films like Rain man, beautiful Mind, patch Adams and other Robin and the Wings movies I think they all pull from the well of this film of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. If you don't have the success of this, and films that are able to tell this complex, dramatic, hospital-oriented story that these other films don't even exist. I think, even if this film is not for you, there's something to appreciate about it because it did open doors beyond it.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. Lastly, to continue on what you said with, why I said, it more than ever is because of the simplicity, tim, that you mentioned, and, Steve, the films that I've seen, the films I probably saw first and then didn't realize they came from this.
Speaker 1:I think they are full-on, like derivative. Not derivative, no, but inspired and just informed.
Speaker 2:And also it's the whole point and, tim, you touched on this earlier it's like this is real. This is like when Milo saw it and he's like this is real. This is what I want to do. I'm not going to put a spin on this and then that reality just comes through with every single performance and the way it was shot and the script. So that's why.
Speaker 1:So, Tim, where should people follow you to know more about you?
Speaker 3:I suppose I have an Instagram account. I don't have a YouTube channel or anything like that. Well, since I'm friggin unemployed now as an actor, maybe I will, you know, you're going to get some tutorials going.
Speaker 1:You're going to get some tutorials going.
Speaker 3:No, I could talk about fucking life and my opinion and life and my opinion on that.
Speaker 1:I'm saying we need to start like Tim Murphy Trims Chrysanthemums. Like I want that series.
Speaker 3:I love it. Yeah, I would like you know. But I would love to do like a documentary because I love history. A documentary I write a motorcycle through the Navajo Reservation and ride horses with the Navajo and Monument Valley and stuff and then go on to the Lakota Res. You know, have a motorcycle trip up along the west going from reservation to reservation and hearing about what their views on life and land and everything is.
Speaker 1:Oh, that would be beautiful. That would be beautiful man.
Speaker 3:But I'm looking forward to our movie coming out. It was such a pleasure working with you guys. It's a fried fest, is that what it's on?
Speaker 1:Yep, it's fried fest, it's fall, that'll be coming out.
Speaker 3:It's London, and then I have a bunch of movies coming out I mean what I love in the last number of years, and I think what's going to happen now, with all this striking and everything, is Independent movies are on the way back, which is great. It's just a matter of getting the finance without ruining the movie by hiring some star that isn't suitable in a type of thing. You did a masterful job in hiring a bunch of you know, just a bunch of actors and not some big, friggin' star or something in it. I have a movie coming out with John Travolta I think I'm going to a screening in a couple of weeks of that one and there's a couple of other about three more independence I did which will be coming out, I suppose, in the next year or something.
Speaker 1:Well, Tim, you're always working on stuff and you're a great guy and we love working with you.
Speaker 2:Getting to hang out with you is always awesome. Hanging out with you at family time yeah, exactly this is great.
Speaker 3:I know it's great and hopefully we do Western in Missouri, you know.
Speaker 1:I know we just got to figure out what that's going to be A spaghetti Western. It's a spaghetti Western where a cowboy eats only spaghetti. It is his only diet.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 1:He's an Italian.
Speaker 3:I was talking to a friggin' friend of mine from the Canary Islands and apparently if you can get $500,000, they'll give you the other $500,000. So they'll finance it 50% or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:Well, Tim, it is absolutely fabulous hanging out with you. Man, I really appreciate you coming in and hanging out with us. Thanks for having us watch One Floor of the Cuckoo's Nest. It was great to revisit it, man.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you did, guys. It's great and great chat with you guys. It was so easy to conversation, which is always good.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, man. Yeah, you got it. Until next time, bro. Thanks Tim.
Speaker 3:Take care boys, Good luck.