HAPPY HOUR FLIX is a podcast all about the movies you love. A nostalgic look at what we grew up watching and how they still impact us today.
Today we jump back to one what is quickly becoming one of our favorite years to review movies, 1984....with movies such as the top-grossers Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Karate Kid, Police Academy, Footloose, Beverly Hill Cop, Star Trek III, as well as The Terminator, Amadeus, Nightmare on Elm Street, This is Spinal Tap, Starman, and two we've talked about before, Gremlins and the Last Starfighter, The Never Ending Story is in good company.
And our special guest is the man behind the work you hear every week, the Wizard of Oz himself, partner in crime, writer and producer extraordinaire, James Allerdyce. And just like the Wizard he knows just about everything about this movie, sharing a ton of personal insight during the very spirited and imaginative conversation.
And of course, a thanks to our good friends over at Misguided Spirits, today's cocktail comes over from Jake’s Dilemma 430 Amsterdam Ave, one of the best local spots on the Upper West Side for so long, mixed courtesy of our friend and bartender, PAIGE CORWIN. Also a sick RB singer by the way. With a new single out “Unlearn how to Love You.”
You know all the amazing clouds and colors we see in the opening credits? That's the inspiration for today’s drink:
THE NOTHING SUNRISE
1 part Whiskey
1 parts blood orange oj
2 part oj
1/2 part grenadine
Orange wheel
Build in order over ice in a highball. Grenadine float. Garnish with an orange wheel.
Okay back to the movie. Come with us as we explore the setting of Fantasia, the incredible characters, phenomenal performances, the meta upon meta themes that still blow our mind today, and the legendary music and score that, admit it, when you hear it you know exactly where you are. One of the most imaginative movies of the 80's it's approach to grief, loss, hope and fear there is so much to explore. From urban legends about Artax to truly terrifying experiences of Atreyu.
There is so much to unpack in this movie, we literally had to cut ourselves off...so come with us as we stretch the world of Fantasia back over the Nothing and ask two of the most important questions of all our discussions: how truly involved was the otherwise never mentioned Steven Spielberg, and does the movie hold up?
Now pour that cocktail and enjoy with us!
A quick reminder, no matter where you are listening to us, if you could rate us and drop us a review on Apple Podcasts, we’d be so grateful - it really helps us spread the good vibes. Thank you!
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is produced by James Allerdyce and Lori Kay, and hosted by Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy.
Main Title is by Johnny Mineo.
Happy Hour Flix | Movies You Love
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is a podcast all about the movies you love. A nostalgic look at what we grew up watching and how they still impact us today.
Today we jump back to one what is quickly becoming one of our favorite years to review movies, 1984....with movies such as the top-grossers Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Karate Kid, Police Academy, Footloose, Beverly Hill Cop, Star Trek III, as well as The Terminator, Amadeus, Nightmare on Elm Street, This is Spinal Tap, Starman, and two we've talked about before, Gremlins and the Last Starfighter, The Never Ending Story is in good company.
And our special guest is the man behind the work you hear every week, the Wizard of Oz himself, partner in crime, writer and producer extraordinaire, James Allerdyce. And just like the Wizard he knows just about everything about this movie, sharing a ton of personal insight during the very spirited and imaginative conversation.
And of course, a thanks to our good friends over at Misguided Spirits, today's cocktail comes over from Jake’s Dilemma 430 Amsterdam Ave, one of the best local spots on the Upper West Side for so long, mixed courtesy of our friend and bartender, PAIGE CORWIN. Also a sick RB singer by the way. With a new single out “Unlearn how to Love You.”
You know all the amazing clouds and colors we see in the opening credits? That's the inspiration for today’s drink:
THE NOTHING SUNRISE
1 part Whiskey
1 parts blood orange oj
2 part oj
1/2 part grenadine
Orange wheel
Build in order over ice in a highball. Grenadine float. Garnish with an orange wheel.
Okay back to the movie. Come with us as we explore the setting of Fantasia, the incredible characters, phenomenal performances, the meta upon meta themes that still blow our mind today, and the legendary music and score that, admit it, when you hear it you know exactly where you are. One of the most imaginative movies of the 80's it's approach to grief, loss, hope and fear there is so much to explore. From urban legends about Artax to truly terrifying experiences of Atreyu.
There is so much to unpack in this movie, we literally had to cut ourselves off...so come with us as we stretch the world of Fantasia back over the Nothing and ask two of the most important questions of all our discussions: how truly involved was the otherwise never mentioned Steven Spielberg, and does the movie hold up?
Now pour that cocktail and enjoy with us!
A quick reminder, no matter where you are listening to us, if you could rate us and drop us a review on Apple Podcasts, we’d be so grateful - it really helps us spread the good vibes. Thank you!
HAPPY HOUR FLIX is produced by James Allerdyce and Lori Kay, and hosted by Steven Pierce and Matt Mundy.
Main Title is by Johnny Mineo.
Happy Hour Flix | Movies You Love
A dead mom, a drowned horse and the existential dread of non-existence. You know a kid's movie from the 80s the never-ending story. It's 1984 and we've got some great movies here, including Ghostbusters, temple of Doom, gremlins, karate Kid, police, academy, but loose, beverly Hills Cop, star Trek 3, the Dead and the Dead, the Terminator, amadeus, nightmare on Elm Street, spinal Tap, starman, the Last Starfighter and Splash. The never-ending story is out with an incredible class of movies this year. I am with, as always, my wonderful co-host, steven Pierce. What's up, man?
Speaker 3:Are we just going to do 1984 movies for the rest of the year?
Speaker 1:We probably should.
Speaker 3:It sort of feels like every movie is from 1984 that I love. This is another one. Isn't this the third or fourth one we've done?
Speaker 1:from 84?. Gremlins, as of now recording Gremlins, and the Last Starfighter, and we have definitely talked about all of these.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all of these. We've mentioned this list. I think we could just rinse and repeat this list every time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing, and those were just some of the top grocers, the beloved ones, like the Natural, you know, of that year. Jesus, what is up about?
Speaker 3:1984?. Yeah, well that's also like the George Orwell novel title oh yeah, it just occurs to me, this is something about.
Speaker 2:And that was out this year too.
Speaker 3:There's something about this year that is just one of those cinema years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and honestly I don't know what the Can I use a corporate term the synergy that literally brought all this together, Because 1985 is good, 1983 is good, but 84 is just nasty good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just unbelievably good. And today picking up Speaking of nasty good Speaking of nasty good. We have our good, good friend, partner in crime here. Co-writer for me with Heard, co-producer with you and fucking everything underneath the sun, james Allardice.
Speaker 1:Yes, what's up, james? And also, not to mention a fantasy literature aficionado, yes.
Speaker 2:Also, 1984 was the year I was born, so Bam, there we go.
Speaker 3:So it was for Again. Great things come from 1984.
Speaker 2:Great to be here, guys, as a guest. Hey, I know.
Speaker 3:Usually we bury you back by the board and say you just shout shit at me, don't say anything, so just so everybody who's watching.
Speaker 1:We have just let you peek behind the curtain and that is the wizard back there. Yeah, there it is. This is the wizard.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God Okay.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of before we get going, we do have to mention that we have an amazing, never-ending story style cocktail mixed up for us today?
Speaker 3:We do indeed. It looks very fruity, I'm not going to lie. Yeah, this one. When I saw the ingredients list, I was a little hesitant about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want our listeners to come at us because we definitely fact-check this and it's a huge. This is a popular style mix.
Speaker 3:I've never heard of this. It may, I'm eager to try it question mark?
Speaker 1:We have not even. We have literally just mixed it.
Speaker 3:They just made it ready to try. What are they called Matt?
Speaker 1:This is the Nothing Sunrise and of course, this is from our good friends over at Misguided Spirits, and this particular cocktail comes from Jake's Dilemma, which is on 430 Amsterdam Avenue, which is one of the best.
Speaker 3:Upper West Side, manhattan yeah, one of your faves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's give it away. As you know, it is one of my favorite spots. If there is a day that ends with why, I might be there, and this one is mixed courtesy of my buddy and bartender, Paige Corwin, who, by the way I have to say, is a sick RB singer, and she just dropped a new single called Unlearn how to Love you. Check it out a little bit. I mean, guys.
Speaker 2:So should I read these ingredients off while we listen to this? Yeah, like on top of it. Oh, this is track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so of course, be sure to check her out on Spotify. We'll have the link to this in the show notes. All of her music is incredible, but this is Unlearn how to Love you. And, of course, on top of this, very wonderfully fantastic themed.
Speaker 3:It's very yeah, it's very in the mood of the movie.
Speaker 2:So if you want to make this, there's an 80-cent thing going on.
Speaker 3:If you want to make this controversial cocktail again, let's get to trying it here. What is this?
Speaker 2:It's the Nothing Sunrise, courtesy of Paige Corwin and made, of course, with misguided spirits, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's one part misguided spirits whiskey, one part blood orange OJ, two parts regular OJ, half part grenadine with an orange wheel. So you build a highball glass of ice and you pour all that, you do your orange juice, your whiskey, your OJ, and then you float the grenadine on top and I guess that's supposed to be like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that Getting in the movie right. Yeah, the opening. As soon as you hear the opening song. Not too dissimilar from what we just heard. That was a great song, by the way. Yeah, it's the clouds and all the colors that are rolling in the opening credits, and I just Two types of OJ and whiskey.
Speaker 3:This is a thing that I guess the people do like whiskey and OJ, Because we Googled it and it is like a thing I think I want to be on the back of a ski boat right now.
Speaker 2:I am surprised we don't have a raw egg in this. Yeah, this definitely needs a raw egg in it.
Speaker 3:I was like what the fuck is that about? That is, You're just gonna drink this raw egg. Okay.
Speaker 2:I always remember this. I remember watching that as a kid. So much of this movie is so, so deep inside me. I mean, I saw this as a really young kid and it's so in me. But that is one of them. That moment Dramatic and traumatic things that happen in the movie. The opening where the dad pours orange juice into a blender, cracks an egg and he does all this like it's a very common place?
Speaker 3:Yeah, as he's talking to his son about it. Who is this actor? I love this actor by the way, what's his name? That's Major Dad. What Major Dad? Yeah, what's he Do? We know the actor's name. He's from other stuff, though he's like a big part in West Wing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Gerald McRaney. Yeah, he's a great actor.
Speaker 3:I think it's the guy I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1:He looks like him yeah yeah yeah, by the way, I'm going to try this All right, so here we go. Okay.
Speaker 2:Actually, I mean I could use a raw egg, but you know, I just like that.
Speaker 3:Wow, I mean this dad is not right in the head at all, like I mean I love it, but I mean what the it's like? I had another dream about dad, mom or mom, dad, I understand, but we have to get on right, son. I rewound it and I was like Jesus Christ, yeah, what was that? I mean this is like I know it's 80s parenting, but holy shit man. And then this guy's eating a raw egg and orange juice.
Speaker 1:I mean it's, yeah, as if he's got any ground to stand on with what he's telling his son to do with that kind of Because I'm pretty sure it's orange concentrate and a raw egg I saw him pouring orange concentrate into a blender and I was like, is he making a smoothie?
Speaker 3:but it's already liquid. Like what is the blender there for?
Speaker 2:So was this a thing Like? Is this a thing in the 80s to like drink a raw egg and a orange juice drink?
Speaker 3:It's in every movie right, Like I don't know about with orange juice, but it's like eating raw eggs is like a thing.
Speaker 1:Like from the 80s, this is an 80s guy. No, that is true. I guess that's true.
Speaker 2:This isn't rocky.
Speaker 3:No, he's just like a dad Literally his mustache is the only thing working out on his face. I do it well.
Speaker 1:And did you notice? It's like I mean, this entire scene is perfectly just the set decoration on it. I mean you've got the Wonder Bread and the government cheese yes, like like a Ritz crackers and a Ziploc of that 80s brand it is and everything's perfectly placed, just to kind of see what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It's super sad, though I mean we'll get to this in the end, but I mean, you know, with this movie sandwiched by these scenes, you know, because the dad tells him this ridiculous thing and he says, you know, keep, keep your feet on the ground.
Speaker 3:Yeah, keep your head out of the clouds. I will say the kid, the kid playing Bastion, fantastic job.
Speaker 2:I mean just so good in this movie.
Speaker 3:He's great. He's like I'm going to get up for one line because his dad's like get your head out of the clouds and stop daydreaming. And he goes OK, it's like no chance that kid understood what that line meant.
Speaker 2:I took that as intentional, though, because he said do you understand? And instead of saying yes, he says OK.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. You know, yeah, I think that completely makes sense. That's in the writing there.
Speaker 1:Well, and apparently Wolfgang Peterson, the director, like he said, he, that kid Oliver, was a joy to work with.
Speaker 1:He's really doing a lot of heavy lifting, a lot of moments and stuff without dialogue and that's really impressive for, especially for a kid oh that opening moment where the, where the camera's pulling back and he's in bed when he sits up, you know, and just actually the way that they follow his movements is so beautiful, you know. But that, just that opening scene, and you're like, oh, I know where I am, I know what kind of movie this is like, with the wood paneling on the headboard and just a little bit of the sunlight coming in, and you're like, ok, this is a. We're going to start small, it's going to be personal. I just I love the way.
Speaker 2:I'll jump on that and say this is one of those movies. If you can pause it, like five minutes in, six minutes in or something like that, it's like you have every, all the information you need to know. You know, you know who your character is, you know what he's going through, you know the backstory with his mom, what his dad told him, and then he goes and gets bullied right away, immediately.
Speaker 3:And you see all of it right in the first five minutes the bullies look like sort of a chopped up and remixed version of Goonies. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like the kids from Goonies is there's like the little they all are just like look so familiar but are like the weirdest looking bullies have ever seen bullies and gang members in 80s movies are just so soft.
Speaker 3:I wrote down because this is hilarious that this came out the same year as Grimlins, because I was like this is like this film has more like the real world opening to Grimlins. Grimlins the dad is wandering around for some ungodknown reason in the middle of Christmas and he's like I need a Christmas gift. You know this one a kid is reading, bullied, rushes in and hides in a store and then magically discovers this weird piece of like magic artifact that he's going to take away with him.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, which is? I mean, it's such a simple I don't know. Yeah, it's a simpler setup, but I it does draw you in, as opposed to like hit you, yeah, and be like, oh, now I'm in an odd part of Chinatown. It's like, nope, it's just simple story and simple things. It reminds me of like the it part one, right, you know, and just like the way that the kid is treated kind of shows his lack of agency. And then, like the plot doesn't just like tell you where he needs to go. It's the story unfolds and lets you know. Of course he would run into a store, not know where he is, and you're like, oh, is that on purpose? You know who is this coriander guy. And that exchange between the two of them is so cool. It's kind of like if Wilford Brimley had not done diabetes commercials. That's who that guy reminds me Very.
Speaker 3:Wilford Brimley yeah that is a deep cut, bro. It's what we're here for oh yeah, absolutely, it's an 80s movie you got to get into this.
Speaker 1:I do just want to say in that opening scene I love where this I don't know why, if this was a take, they kept, but it did not sound like it was meant to be written this way. The father says don't be late for school again. And he goes well, I wasn't yesterday, right? Yeah, it was almost like he was trying to tell him wait, that's not the line.
Speaker 2:Okay, back to the scene. Okay, so again, 80s movie. I mean, the time period of the 80s is so well set up in this movie because it could never take place. No, all these things could never happen. Yeah, also like this. So the end of that scene where the dad is having breakfast, then he stands up, he's like good talk, son, and he says don't be late for school and just walks away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:This kid is getting to school on his own, on the way he gets bullied. He walks into a store, a department, a bookstore, but you know he's just like you know, exploring around a bookstore, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, steering a book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then he shows up to school late and just kind of walks around the halls. Nobody is out Finds an attic in a school Right, obviously a place he's been because he like climbs up and he's just hanging out there all day into the night. You know it doesn't come home. Yeah, exactly, I never find out anything about that and you know, but that's how that was the 80s. Yeah, you know, I mean that could happen. That could never happen. Today, police would be checking the security cams on the school.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:To find out the attic that he wouldn't be in because it wouldn't exist.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this would have been the never starting story, I know and maybe this, I mean maybe he doesn't never gets in trouble because of his dad's in the hospital with Salmanilla from the raw egg stomach is about to have.
Speaker 1:maybe. That is no joke. I like that. I did love the fact that, like, yeah, he goes into the, into the school, and there's no, like no hall monitor, there's nobody to check him. I mean, it really does speak of its time. This is that all that stuff was shot in Canada, I believe. By the way, that is the impact, right.
Speaker 3:So most of this was shot in Germany right, right yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the exteriors are shot in Canada.
Speaker 3:Vancouver, vancouver. And then, and I think, didn't I read somewhere that Steven Spielberg actually did some of the reediting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did.
Speaker 3:Took off like seven minutes of the movie, but it's originally German, so like this is one thing that I was wondering. So they did all the lip sync and dialogue in German, correct, and then they synced it and looped it in English English, but their mouths are speaking English, right.
Speaker 1:Most of the actors were, but if you look, I think it's Nighthob is speaking German, and of course Rockbiter is too, and you just chalk that up to Rockbiter because he's in a costume.
Speaker 2:Right, of course, but like he's speaking German. He's a puppet, yeah, but he's speaking German and that's like the kind of caveman looking guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's because he's a weird character. You don't really notice it that much, but I'm so. But like Atreus speaking English, the Empress is speaking English. Right, Very interesting, yeah. So what was in German Like?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. Like that's my question.
Speaker 3:They said they recorded it in German, but then it's looped in English. So what is every, every single line in this movie is looped. Is ADR? Yeah, and there's a single sync line on here.
Speaker 1:No, and there is a guy I think his name is Alan Oppenheimer and, of course, just remembered Oppenheimer because we've all seen it recently is he does the voice for like all the characters, and he is an American actor.
Speaker 2:He's like New York City, you mean all the like he does, he does the Falcor, the Rockbiter and the narrator and one other thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the one of the creatures. Yeah, one of the. Oh come on, come on, that's all the same guy. You know, and it's like he's this he's one of the most like you can't say well known, because nobody knows him, but he's, like one of the most prolific.
Speaker 3:He's the Mel Blanc of this movie.
Speaker 1:Yes, and he's the Mel Blanc of that, like outside of Mel Blanc.
Speaker 3:Whenever we got into the, the Neverending Sturro, the Fantasia world, right, fantasia, fantasia, it's like I was like this is a ton of Lewis Carroll Like this. Just to me it just like wreaked of Lewis Carroll, like these extreme kind of caricatures, but in like a darker sort of way.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking about him as well. It had a lot of like original Wizard of Oz kind of feel.
Speaker 2:So this was a book, this was a novel, right, which I never knew.
Speaker 3:I didn't know. I never read it. It was a German novel. I just know, because I looked it up.
Speaker 1:And he was famous in Germany, and Michael Ender, or you know, ende.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so he hated the movie. Yeah, which?
Speaker 1:is wild and you know the we were talking about this off air but he hated the big breasts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one of the things that I read that he hated specifically was, I mean God, when that scene came up with the Sphinxes and he walks up to them. So I guess in the book it was like you have to wager your life. It's like it's the classic Sphinx, you know, and it's like this is from mythology. But you wager your life and if you get the question wrong you die. If you get it right, you pass, and it's some kind of riddle and this one it is just walk up and, I guess, be confident to some degree.
Speaker 3:Well, not you have to know your worth. That's what it is. Yeah, know your worth and be confident, which is left out, like the, the, the, the gnome scientist man did not give him, given that he said you're just a man that knows his worth, that feels like very diamond in the rough, you know what I mean, like only one may pass, kind of thing. But then they get up there and he's like, oh, don't become not confident. I was like, well, shit, you should have told him that before he got down off the big rock here, man.
Speaker 2:To be fair, he wasn't, he didn't plan on the kid he wasn't done.
Speaker 3:That's the kid's point. Okay, I'm going.
Speaker 2:Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, what are you talking?
Speaker 3:about yeah, and he can obviously hear him Like it's not like he gets so far away that he can't, that he can't hear him.
Speaker 2:He can't hear him. No, he's looking through a telescope to see him. No, I'm saying like a trade.
Speaker 3:So he starts to leave and the scientist is like no, don't leave. I haven't told you about the other end. It's like I'm just climbing down the mountain here.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm going to go towards death and to that point of like Michael and not really like hating the movie. He sued, like he sued and lost because he hated it so much. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:Interesting, I mean. Oh, but back to the back, to the nipples on the Sphinx. Sure, yeah, because they were.
Speaker 2:I mean, Jesus, you've gone to nipples, you started with just brass, just brass.
Speaker 3:Well, you've regressed. I don't know if you've been. I don't know if you've been there in real life, but that's generally how they end, so, like the speakers, to come to a point, if you will they, they, they, they, they, they bring it all to a point. The Sphinx just looks like. It looks like something like a character from a Bert Reynolds movie. You know what I mean? That they just like, yeah, and I'm like this is a kid's movie. Those are like you didn't have to have the nipples.
Speaker 1:I figure they probably paid for them so much that, like they were like well, what's the Southern Oracle going to be? Oh, just make it the same thing, but blue. Yeah, so we get to see those breasts twice.
Speaker 2:Well, it is a kid's movie because if you look at the perspective that a tray you is looking up at the, you know this is like a few years ago.
Speaker 3:I think these are the nipples that inspired Tim Burton. You know what I mean, for, like Batman, where he's like, see, you can do it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you can wear armor and have nipples. Exactly right. I hadn't thought about that. The witch, uh no hold on.
Speaker 2:Tim Burton did not had no part in bringing nipples into that.
Speaker 1:Oh well, that day is true, that was George Clooney's and that was Tim Burton was not in that one, all right.
Speaker 3:We were Jerry Brockheimer. Oh, that's Jerry Brockheimer. Yeah, all right, I apologize, tim, you and Sputman.
Speaker 2:Well, that meant Robin.
Speaker 1:But to that point Frank and Weenie remember the original. Frank and Weenie that he did that little boy that we just mentioned. Barrett Oliver did the voice for Frank and Weenie. Oh interesting, yeah, it all comes around man. Yeah, I mean, he saw his amazing performance and wanted him as well. I just, I don't know, I love that thing. I was like oh exactly, do that.
Speaker 3:Can we go back a little bit to like when we first see the rock biter for the first time? Because, it's great, like it. Well, I mean, he's pushing a wheel. We don't see him do that later because you meet him later in the film, but he doesn't have his wheel anymore, right.
Speaker 1:I think it's supposed to be a motorcycle, like I thought it was a bike.
Speaker 2:It's a bike. Okay, it's like a bicycle, it's like a unicycle.
Speaker 3:Not a unicycle, but a I thought he was pushing like a lawnmower like a steamroller Looks like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Exactly Like I just a perspective, or everybody, and then he comes in. But he has one of the best lines like these rocks are the reason we've come here. Delicious bouquet. You know it's like, oh, this is hilarious.
Speaker 1:It was a great vintage. Exactly it's like okay, All right, let's describe this. What translation was this? You know what was it originally in German?
Speaker 3:The rock biter for you, being the slow kind of character, has the best cutting one liners of anyone in the film.
Speaker 1:Oh, it really does, and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves like we just did with the Sphinx, but we'll get there.
Speaker 3:Oh no, we could jump wherever you guys want to go.
Speaker 2:I think we should go through the entire movie, you know one adventure at a time, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean that's well, that's what this is.
Speaker 1:I mean this literally is two years before the, the legend of Zelda, you know, and I think that there's so much in common here Just because it is. I mean, you have Zelda the Empress, you've got Link who goes on a quest to save her. There's like a instead of like. You know, you have these protective things like the RN and things that will, you know, we'll get, I don't know. There's just so much there. So, yeah, when you said the word quest, we'll go on, there are these little, each one, it's like every kind of scene is so like really well encapsulated in its own thing, like that scene where they go meet these characters that are just introduced, just so you know that there's other characters in this world.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, and so we we brought up.
Speaker 3:Carol already you know Lewis Carol, but you know.
Speaker 2:This part, I think, is also very JRR Tolkien, where you have the, the different, the different species of the world coming together because they're all being pushed right, this threatening darkness that's that's looming, and these people would never have been together otherwise. You know, they're like the. You know the caveman guy. What was he called? The rockbiter?
Speaker 3:Oh, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2:Oh, the Nighthob, Nighthob, the Nighthob you know, had obviously never seen a rockbiter, before, because the other guy, the teeny weenie, who's?
Speaker 3:that's what that's what his character is called.
Speaker 2:He rides a snail which makes me realize like oh was he small. I didn't realize that he was like the size of a snail.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't either. Some of the perspective in this movie is there's there's some walking shit.
Speaker 2:But but these characters all came together and you know he's like oh, he's a rockbiter, oh, he's a rockbiter, right right.
Speaker 1:When he starts, you know biting rocks.
Speaker 2:They had never seen each other before. They're all being pushed together, which is, I think, like very JRR told.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Species that would never have anything to do with one another, but they're like. You know damn what's going on.
Speaker 3:So the teeny weenie that's a guy in the top hat he straight up is the mad hatter, right?
Speaker 1:I mean that is, I mean just is, and he's very Willy Wonka.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And he's ADR'd like whoa. Most of the ADR is like so good, but that guy's ADR is insane, Like it's nowhere near what his mouth is doing, which is funny, I think as a kid I just thought I was like oh, this is what movies look like.
Speaker 2:I was just looking at the snail and again the rockbiter has the best cutting lines, like he really is a racing snail, which is what a silly line here's what I got to get into about this movie, though, and rewatching it, it's like this movie understands kids, and it understands like a kid's perspective and I know that because of how much this movie meant to me as a kid and how much I loved it and how much it influenced me.
Speaker 2:And then watching it as an adult, where it's like you know, you start to see the imperfections and sure sure sure story elements that come together in weird ways and strange pacing issues and stuff, none of which meant and I did not see any of that. I did not even, you know. And watching it last night I was like I feel like I'm watching a, an edited version of this movie. I remember all these scenes being three times as long.
Speaker 3:Yes, epic, twice as dramatic twice as epic.
Speaker 2:But I think it just speaks to like this movie understood a child's perspective and you know when the rockbiter said that when I saw it as a kid I was like that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3:I thought look at how fast that snail's moving.
Speaker 2:It's just like it understands the magic and obviously like the movies about that, about you know, not losing your imagination, and that type of stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I said that this was like kind of like it's like young kids Star Wars, it's like big fantastical creatures, fantastical magical world that you're kind of moving through. But they're all, it's not. It does have a lot, a lot of shortcomings in the storytelling. That again, I haven't seen this movie. Now, I guess that's a fair thing. I haven't seen this movie in shit 20 years.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I've like.
Speaker 3:I've seen like a scene or something from it. I'd be like, oh yeah, never in the story, but it's been a long time. For me it was likewise.
Speaker 1:It's the same and I think I, when I on my rewatch, one thing that stuck out and we've already talked about the scene was the bookstore and I, as soon as he like, walked in and he's kind of discovered behind the stack of the books I was. I just asked myself the question. I was like wait, is this why I like, really like dusty?
Speaker 3:old books.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like this might have been the genesis of my like love affair of walking into rare bookstores and just any bookstore, but anything that I see that's got tomes in it, I just I'm, I'm suckered in.
Speaker 2:It's so deep. So much of this movie is. So I remember it being so deep, yeah, you know, and even that moment in the bookstore and you know it is. So watching this movie now, I did see a lot of the shortcomings that I never even that in the eye at as a kid. But what I did see positively watching at this time was that was exactly the same as it was before, which was the score and how sure how good that score was, so can I play this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, play a little score.
Speaker 2:This is so. First moment you hear this, I believe, is in the bookstore, when he sees the book yes, and this comes in and I go oh, how drawing it draws you in.
Speaker 3:It's mysterious.
Speaker 2:It has fantasy, but it's a little bit scary, I mean, I just think it's amazing, I think the whole score does so much.
Speaker 3:No, it's great. I think some of the score like reads super dated to me now when I was listening to it this time, like some of it is like straight up just like a disco track, yeah, and like the opening. I was like I wrote down something like this is like you know, I once heard an Abba song, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like and this is like the track we wrote. Hold on, hold on, wait a minute. We talking about the song, the titular song. Yeah, play the titular song. You're going to knock this song?
Speaker 3:Yeah, play that song Come on, the one that, like you haven't seen the banger, you haven't seen the movie in 20 years and I guarantee you still know this song.
Speaker 2:Dude, and it comes out of the gate. That was the first thing rewatching. I was like dude. This movie starts in the opening credits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean who's not transporting? Leave it in the credits.
Speaker 3:You can't see this, but James is on the table dancing.
Speaker 1:Oh man, yeah, please be careful.
Speaker 3:Be careful, take off. Where did these platform shoes come from? Are those very? That's not like it sounds like. It's like we've heard an Abba song once and this is kind of like our version of it. Like nothing wrong with that, it is just it is very much of the time.
Speaker 1:And apparently the, the synth and the techno pop was only added for the, the US version, like initially when this was in Germany or whatever, and I think it's. I will butcher his name or her name, but so I won't say it. But now I'm curious yeah, I don't want more order, more, it looks like more. I'm like more door looks like more door Georgia, more door. Who did the theme song which peaked at number four in the UK and number six in the US?
Speaker 2:He did the theme song, he did a score to the movie.
Speaker 1:I think so. Yeah, and then it was Klaus, yes, klaus doldinger. I started the score and then he was in the band passport at the time and then more door came in and like did the score and then wrote that song, and then they added the techno pop.
Speaker 3:So the techno like that opening title song is on the US version only.
Speaker 1:Well, I have it. I can't verify that because I haven't seen the German version yeah. But that's, and which I do want to see, you know, because I'm like, is that? Because I can't imagine the score without that?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:You know, and it just it's so emblematic to the you know and of course that's I. Can you not, can you not hear the song still in your head right now?
Speaker 3:Sure yeah, it lingers. I'll give you that, I'll give you that.
Speaker 1:And the oh shoot. I totally lost where I was going to go with that, but so it's not important.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I mean, he did the score too, and you know he did the score for, like Scarface.
Speaker 1:Right, that's what I was saying, and Flash.
Speaker 2:Dance. So there we go Scarface and Flash Flash Dance. Put those two things together, weird.
Speaker 3:I think you get this combination of career Guys. I almost, when I was a kid I remember like this movie would always be on and I early on I was like I would turn this movie off because you get in and the fun, Maybe I fucked this movie. Our tax just died in the swamp and was like and I almost quit again, Like this time through I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, man fucked this like I don't want to do it. Heavy it's so, so heavy. It's so good to know, though, that that was a rumor that that horse died.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay so we all heard this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, by the time we were in. I didn't hear back. Then I heard it like when we're middle school, high school, oh yeah, oh yeah. You know that scene. You know why that scene so powerful? Because that horse, because the horse actually died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, I believe it. I did too long time like a no kidding. It may have kept me from rewatching the movie, because I'm like I don't know but and rewatching at this time knowing that that horse lived much better.
Speaker 2:Still again. I do remember that scene being three times as long.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's intense, yeah, I same same.
Speaker 2:Even so it is. It is so heavy and it is way, way dark for a kid to watch.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, you know we're watching this at it. I mean, I don't know what age I was watching this at, probably very young. I know I went to this. I went to see the sequel in theaters and I looked at the date on that and that puts me at six or seven years old seeing the sequel in theaters. So I had to be watching this movie. I'm watching that. You know the horse. You know a kid pleading with his horse, drowning at five, which I mean that's so yeah, that's why it feels so intense.
Speaker 1:No, Hathaway is amazing in that.
Speaker 3:He is.
Speaker 1:I really is his anguish is real. Now I think like unfortunately he did get hurt like a multiple times.
Speaker 3:He got messed up in that. I don't know if it was that scene or not, but when he was riding the horse, that horse like he fell off and got stepped on all kinds of stuff and then the, the god, I forgot the wolf at the end. Oh, come on oh yeah, the more like something malfunctioned about it. It almost took his eye out, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I, so I did clock. As a kid I always thought that fight with good mark was super quick. Yeah, yeah, he jumped out he jumps up and then all of a sudden he was dead and I was always like a little. I always thought that was weird.
Speaker 1:I always noticed that and that's the only take they got. Yeah, that's the one watching. Is him getting now I see, yeah.
Speaker 2:There was an injury and you know, that's, that's all they could get, or something.
Speaker 3:That's it. You know, day was over.
Speaker 1:I mean, you damn near lost tonight, oh Not do that again and speaking of Tolkien, that moment made me think of Turin and Glaurung. Like you know, this, you know you're going deep into the, the children of her, yeah, yeah some Marillian and like this overpowered, but like really and just bad shit keeps happening to this character.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then is faced with the like the scariest of all villains, who is Actually teach you like telling this character the truth, which is like what Gal Glaurung kind of like would put a spell on you by speaking all these truths to you. And that's like Gamork does that and then jumps and spoiler alert, because it was written in like 1917 I think it's the first draft of Turin, is he just literally stabs him in the gut. And that's how he ends this huge, massive dragon, you know what?
Speaker 2:so that's how this ends. Yeah, and it's just like wolf and I.
Speaker 1:That happened and I just like, oh shit, this is Turin, turin Park anyway.
Speaker 3:So I don't that was a deep cut again. I mean putting you guys in here bringing up the simerillians a little bit dangerous, because we might just lose the rest of the podcast entirely. The.
Speaker 2:I was worried where I was rewatch, rewatching this movie last night with my wife and I'm, you know, forcing her to watch a fellowship of the ring for the home the umpteenth time. Yeah, we're watching in his sections you know, I was worried like oh man, there's gonna be like a mash-up, you know we do this thing. We're watching so many things and it's like oh, mash up and you start combining things in your head.
Speaker 3:We did okay you know, I, uh, I had a whole. I laughed out loud Whenever they got to the snail, the snail like, or the turtle. So the sorry, the turtle the turtle sneezes. Yes, sneezes, Steases him off the tree. It literally happened the first time and I was standing in the kitchen making dinner and I literally go. You're welcome. Oh yeah, God bless you.
Speaker 2:That has to be an influence. I mean known or not known, I mean it's the same scene it is yeah, I don't like uh, you know I guess one triples down on it though.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh it's so gross, but with the you know so more or less made me think of all these like creatures that we see right and like we're going back to where he he's reading and we're introduced to, to a Trey you and we're introduced to the Empress and the. The guy comes out to talk about her and it feels very like Wizard of Oz, like you're all here to be saved and you can't see the one behind the curtain.
Speaker 3:But you have to go on a quest for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's like got all these like overlapping heroes journey style. You know the themes going on. And now, okay, did you track some of the characters that are in the background?
Speaker 2:I? I didn't, but I saw online.
Speaker 1:What what is this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, you're ready for this, steve.
Speaker 3:I'm ready. What?
Speaker 1:I so when they're around, when they're around the Empress's ivory tower.
Speaker 3:Okay, oh look, okay, we got images here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so no yeah.
Speaker 1:Steve is looking at. No, that's the ivory tower.
Speaker 2:I haven't been able to figure out. I'm like is Steven Spielberg a producer on this or he wasn't? I don't know. He's just like a friend of the directors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and they, they needed Lucas films. You know, help force like filling out things? Yeah, they were just so like.
Speaker 3:here We've got Gumby, yoda, chewbacca, mickey Mouse, although that one I I don't know that you can completely confirm that one from this image the Ewoks ET and C3PO, et is like an absolute yes, yeah, so C3PO, c3po is yeah, pretty.
Speaker 1:Ewoks are true to yeah.
Speaker 2:So at that point you, they got you got it.
Speaker 3:That's insane. Yeah, what a crazy cameo.
Speaker 2:Just to clarify there. There's a wide shot, you know, at the, at the. Ivory tower every tower and you know there's all the different people from the different lands and among them in that Wide shot is they filled it out with all these different weird-looking characters.
Speaker 3:I think you can also. I think you're being pretty generous with filled it out. That looks like a day where you had like half the background actors show up. You know what I mean. Like that shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and and can I just talk about the fact that, like, since we since we've already gotten to Moorla and we're going back, it's okay. So Fantasia needs to be saved, so they need the Empress, but the Empress needs to send a hero. The hero needs to go see Moorla, moorla needs to send him to the Oracle. The Oracle says, oh, you got a rename it like it's just this poor kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, it's sort of an odd Fever dream of a narrative yeah, everything's a side quest. Yeah, yeah everything's a complete side quest and then we get to the all the way, all the way. I just want to say justice for our track, our tax, because he dies and Immediately, that's right. He was on to the next thing and we've just like completely forgotten about.
Speaker 1:It's good to have a friend, I said and then here comes Falcor, and we're like oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Upgraded and, although unfalcor is be honest, does look like a little bit like a hair hair to the Siamese cat. Okay, and since I was a kid, I was like what is this thing?
Speaker 1:Okay. Yes, I want to ask like did you have or do you remember having emotional responses to Falcor? I love Falcor, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love Falcor and he's. He is so weird and so odd and you never saw anything that looked like that. And the scales, the fact that he had scales, I remember being that so Almost weirded out by it. But then, but yet you liked him and so it was like yeah, exactly, it was just he's like a weiner dog with the skin.
Speaker 3:It was complex. You know so much as movie I'm.
Speaker 2:It's so deep and complex for a kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah for a kid, yeah for sure story, wise elements and stuff.
Speaker 2:Like we're talking about watch as an adult and you're like okay, but again, like I Don't know the experience of watching this movie as a kid, I would call it genius. Yeah it knows what kids because it, because I know what that experience was and it's the attention to this day and I'm watching it now, and so much of what I'm going through is based in you know, obviously, the nostalgia of seeing it as a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course, yeah, I can't disassociate and the powerful and the storytelling being like, you know, can't divorce it from the fact that it's German and we have, you know, a lot of us grew up on German fairy tales. It is dark fairy, dark fairy tales and it's just like they. You know grimm's fairy tales like that is this Bavarian, you know, and Central Western Europe. Like this, these dark fairy tales, and here's one on screen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course you know. Falkor is amazing, though, because he's a. You know, we don't see here in the West a lot of good dragons right. Yeah, and he's a like a luck drag a luck dragon, which goes back to, like the Chinese, yeah, dragon mythology.
Speaker 1:I think where they were, you know and they were long forces and they longer. Yeah, and I did. That was the first time I think I definitely would have ever seen one, and didn't know for a long time. Oh, that's the. Oh a luck dragon is actually a thing From mythology as well. Okay, hot take, though. I Know we all love Falkor, but I think that's when I realized I had trypophobia. You guys know what trypophobia is no, I don't.
Speaker 3:What is?
Speaker 1:the fear of the concentric circles like all tightly together. When you see like something Like it's hard to explain, but like when you see a bunch of circles near each other it's supposed to like look like infection and some people get, so it's a the people that have it, or like me and I'm describing it and it's kind of painful.
Speaker 1:Okay, but it's like circle cheese, like looking at Swiss cheese with a bunch of holes in it. It's kind of it's just gross, and there's apparently something you know supposedly in Like the evolutionary science that it meant decay, so stay away from it. Interesting, and so it's like a defense mechanism and I remember as a kid Probably five or six as well watching this for the first time and I found Falkor's back gross.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I mean the which is up there, yeah, and his spine sort of weird, and the which is just injecting him with a huge needle.
Speaker 1:What is this?
Speaker 3:he needs his vitamins, yeah like and he even goes like bro. It's like he doesn't like that.
Speaker 2:That was visceral, so is this movie so visceral? That's a great term, I'm telling you he just cut.
Speaker 3:But our tray you we've not given enough heat to this a tray you cold drops our tax. He's like he meets Falkor and he's like it's good to have a friend again, like you mentioned it again, I was like Jesus Christ Well yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So there is a scene where we see him stumbling through the mud afterwards, feeling complete despair and, to be fair, the despair he feels after our text dies is so great that he begins sinking as well, and he's sure he's in the mud and about to die from despair.
Speaker 3:When Falkor luck finds him, yeah, but like dragon finds me and I'll give you a second.
Speaker 2:At the end of this thing where, like at the end of the movie, he's with the Empress, she's like telling him what's up and he brings it back. He's like are you? She's like oh, this whole thing was for you to connect to a human child and I like this is actually an adult moment right here, because he's like my horse died. I have been to you all this crap and you're telling me I was just supposed to connect with a human child like come on, man.
Speaker 2:I even get one but he does bring it back.
Speaker 3:He's like my horse died lady right, yeah, he does, and then back in the end, but I mean it's just like this huge blank spot in the middle. So do you think that? Yeah that? Do you think that Billy Crystal just wasn't available to play the?
Speaker 1:old side of that too, I was like cuz Princess Bride is only a few years later.
Speaker 3:I mean, this is what I mean and this is the same the same care, yeah oh, that is total I when it.
Speaker 1:When they came up angle gook and Earl, I was like oh my gosh, it's mad, mad Max, it's miracle max.
Speaker 3:He has the best. I mean, one of the best lines of this movie is like when he's going to his telescope and he's like the to the witch wench. Yeah, he's like she cranks him up to the top. It's just fantastic.
Speaker 1:I'm not a winch, I'm your wife, but don't you said I'm not sure I want to be that anymore.
Speaker 3:It is Billy Crystal.
Speaker 1:I mean it just is yeah, and I think that Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he's speaking in German as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would make sense. That's why he's so funny.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna keep going broken record and talking about how much, like as a kid, certain little scenes meant to me. Which are you know, after a tray you get through. You know, makes it through the lasers the lasers miss me makes it through Southern Oracle and then you know the the doctor guy's so happy Down there and everything. I mean the joy that I remember feeling was just just level 10, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course that's it, just brings it back 11.
Speaker 2:This is 1984, some years spinal.
Speaker 3:So how the hell did he lose Falcor?
Speaker 2:It's very blown over. Yeah, it's like very much.
Speaker 3:Oh, he's like they're learning. He's they're looking for each other. I'm like, wait a second, wait a second, hold on.
Speaker 2:How does this happen?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the best part of this is flying on Falcor the whole best part of the movie. Every time it happens, that's the best part. And then the next thing is like all of a sudden they're not together and I was like what I?
Speaker 1:kind of want to see this. I bet there's got to be a mashup or remix of that, of the exact same scenes of him on the back of Falcor, but it's Lois Lane and Superman, sure? I Just want to see Is they're just flying over it, you know, I'm like so they're looking for the edge of, or they're looking, I'm trying to remember the boundary of fantasy? Yeah, the boundary of Fantasia. But they're just like man, they are good Fly cookin, yeah, cooking, yeah, well, you know.
Speaker 2:and then, well, here's the other thing, though. Hmm, steve, that's true, but he was a luck dragon, I think he, you know, he is luck, you know, personified. So I think you know, he saves a tray you, because a tray, you got lucky, and you, out of everyone, knows how fast your luck can run out, don't you? I'm really? It's a singer, I didn't. I was like what is it? I?
Speaker 3:was like kind of them thinking through my life. I was like what has happened? I really just meant we all know how, how fast you're lucky sure, sure, sure, yeah, you're lucky and just turn just like your luck and turn you, you lose your thing. You know, I can't tell you how many times and he doesn't get it.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you how many times.
Speaker 3:I've been flying on my air reindeer or my dog reindeer, you know what I mean and all of a sudden my the luck just turns. I end up in the lake, being like where are you Every?
Speaker 1:and it's like I'll be right there. I got to go find the RN first. Yeah, exactly, find the medallion.
Speaker 3:Yeah and again. Look, he's much more upset about losing Falkor than he was our tax.
Speaker 2:Like he was more time.
Speaker 3:It was like when fell news is Falkor, it's like the worst thing that's ever happened. Our tax was like sort of a bad Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Right, oh, you got something to the swamp.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're out of the happy, or okay? Well, you know.
Speaker 1:I, yeah, and what's wild too is so we keep talking about what things that remind us of other, like we've mentioned Lewis, carol and Tolkien and and a few others, and there's the moment where the the, the, the Oracle, the southern Oracle says you know, you have to name a. Well, that's actually a kind of an interesting script thing. But they say an earthling later. Later they do say human child. So I was like huh, can I get a scripty on this? You started with earthling child and you went with a human child.
Speaker 1:But the. And then two things immediately came to mind, which was Narnia. And you know, because they you know all these creatures who belong to the earth know they're like or belong here in Narnia, they're like wait, you're a son of Adam, you're a daughter of Eve. Like you're, you don't belong here. And so this whole idea of a, of an earthling child, yeah, it doesn't belong here. And and then also the naming thing, which is very much a creation story thing, like when man is made in God's image, his job is get, he gets to name Things. That's where the power comes from, is like you get to name things, you use your, and so it's like wow, like in two seconds it was like oh, there's creation mythology, you know, there's that. You get, you get a Genesis and you get CS Lewis. I was a happy boy at that moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have to mention CS Lewis and connection to this, because it just it does. It's like Star Wars, cs Lewis.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's what it sort of feels like but then it also has this like and you touch on it here the whole have, you know, him having to name something and they need, they need him to be involved. That's the extra element that's not in these other stories, that is in this trip where you start to get that.
Speaker 2:He's writing the story as he's reading it right, he's involved. You know, like it's. He's not passive, he is a player in this world and he's creating the world and they they start baking that in so slowly and so well. I think oh they really do, and those scenes are great yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's with.
Speaker 2:Bastion when he's reading and he'll look up and say and the lines are ridiculous, you know, he looks up and says it can't be true. Yeah, and yet the proof it's like you're totally with him, you're like, oh man, I'm with you, I feel this, you know, and it's like in that moment.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's one of my favorite little cute Barrett Oliver Bastion moments when he eats the sandwich and he takes a bite. Oh my god can we talk about that? Oh, and he's like no, that's enough for now. It's a long journey, you know sound effect when Bastion eats the sandwich the sandwich.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, I rewatched it five times. Not not even joking, it is. Go look it up. It is the best sound. The city, it is like squishy, like he. The line is like he goes the Empress and it's like a slurp as he eats a sandwich. It's like and it's so loud, it's hilarious, I'm not even joking. I rewound it five times and laughed my ass off.
Speaker 2:After the first one, they were like OK, that's why he's just going to take one bite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're good, we're good. It's like it feels like something you know, this whole film, like those scenes I would believe weren't a yard Like I believe those are actual natural audio and it feels like one of those things is like I mean, god, I don't know how that kid is making that sound. Can we get it? Can we get a line clean without that? Because it's like it's bread, but somehow it's like well.
Speaker 1:I sound. Have you ever seen a child slurp a sandwich?
Speaker 3:I'm just going to slurp down this egg and cheese really quick.
Speaker 1:Oh, I learned it from my dad. Exactly, julius, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I don't like the method anyway that he's eating the sandwich, you know, like the bite in the middle, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I do have a gripe.
Speaker 2:You can't just do one bite in the middle and then not take off the sides with the two next.
Speaker 3:Can I go super dark? Yeah, of course, I mean always.
Speaker 1:Well, you know his mom's dead because the sandwich is not cut. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dun dun, dun, dun, dun dun dun. Oh, my God, yeah.
Speaker 3:You can't, you can't take one bite out of the middle and not take out the sides, because your cheek gets covered. Your cheeks get covered in whatever you're eating. It's yeah.
Speaker 2:But again I mean there may and I don't think that was in this moment, but there is something to all. I mean, obviously him having lost the mom is a huge part of the movie and everything.
Speaker 1:Well, he said, like, why didn't they ask me? My mom had a beautiful name.
Speaker 2:Like so we're going to get to the name, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do we want to go there? I'm fine. Yes, go to the name.
Speaker 2:It's got the name, I mean we have to come back to it. Yeah, so it's revealed the Empress.
Speaker 3:I mean I also just got to touch one or more thing with Bastion, like in this scene, because like the Empress like says, you know, saying like, and he's here and he just doesn't know Bastion has the best line of the films he goes what. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Bastion's line oh man, he's just I mean okay.
Speaker 1:Crushed it.
Speaker 3:That is, it's like an adult level performance out of this little kid. It's just so good.
Speaker 2:What. Look at me talking about me.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's so good, it's so dramatic. And.
Speaker 2:I was just, you're just completely with him. Also that little girl who plays the Empress Tami. I always found her performance.
Speaker 1:She's so good.
Speaker 3:She's so good.
Speaker 2:It's intriguing. She's spiking the camera and crying into it and she has a. I mean, it's like that's like the kid who plays Elliot and ET level. Yeah, you know where you're, just like whoa, yeah, like she's very engaging.
Speaker 3:So she was 11 when she did this. I remember when I wrote down the note and then I deleted it because I was like I don't want to, I wouldn't want to comment on this, but her teeth look so weird. Oh, when I was watching it, I was like, and I was just doing a little looking, and she had lost her two front teeth and they put in fake teeth and I was like, well, now I could talk about it because she had fake she was growing up.
Speaker 3:She was growing up but she had like weird, they were very, very square and sort of an odd color and I was like, oh, this poor girl, she's a good thing, she's a good actress, maybe she gets some dental work.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, exactly, she's like hey does. Can I use George Washington's dentures for this? Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 3:If it looked like wooden teeth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there was. I mean, I don't know if it was about the teeth or what it did to her bite, but like her performance was as ethereal as her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 1:You know, she's the young emperor. She doesn't look, she doesn't feel young, she feels like just ethereal and like you ever.
Speaker 2:Old and young at once.
Speaker 1:Yes, wise, but young.
Speaker 3:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:I guess the makeup was sick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the audition, like 3000 people for that role or something I read and that the she the first time she read for them. They're like I mean she's good, but she looks total weird because she was like, came in all like dumpy and kind of like was wearing face paint from another show she was in or something like a theater play. It's just a theater.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I read that she she wasn't interested in getting into film and she she wanted to do theater. And when she, apparently when she auditioned for this, she thought she said she thought it was a theater role.
Speaker 3:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting, Just an audience of one right into the camera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyway she's. So they were like yeah.
Speaker 3:And then, well then, I guess she like dressed up or whatever, and then came back and they're like, oh yeah, no, she's super good.
Speaker 1:I mean 3000 kids to yeah that's a lot. Not a single self tape, exactly, but bridging the points right.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we we get throughout the movie that he's involved Right. The first time, or one of the first times, is in the mirror, when, when a tray walks up to the mirror.
Speaker 3:Right, yes.
Speaker 2:And I remember being so freaked out by that, you know, when I was a kid and just like he sees himself, he sees bastion in his reflection, and the two of them. It's not just one way. The fact is that it's two ways, two way you can see that they both see the other.
Speaker 2:Right, there's no dialogue about that, you just see it in their performances, right, that they both they're they're aware of one another. Right, that that part, you know, is great and anyway. So we discover that that he needs to give the Empress a name.
Speaker 1:A name, yeah, a name, and they had talked about that earlier and like I mean, here's the because, the whole thing I tracked, at least in this movie, that I obviously didn't track as a kid. So I was like, oh, we're dealing with grief of losing your mom and 100 percent. And because it set up so perfectly, keep your feet on the ground, like you were saying earlier Exactly. And then this entire story is about not being on the ground.
Speaker 3:Oh, finding the you know, finding the ability to be a kid again within the trauma of like loss of your parents.
Speaker 1:And the fact that you know like it even opens with that we talked about it up top, like I had another dream about mom and and then you know he's making dreams about unicorns. But then it's like, OK, he's dealing with grief, he's talking about his mom, and then he even says at one point, my mom had such a beautiful name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wish they would ask me what you know I could give her a name.
Speaker 3:That's I mean that's the real masterstroke of this film. I will say, like everything up to there is pretty. You know, I wouldn't say it's done, but it exists, like it's. It's sort of a mashup of its own version of different things that have existed before it. Right, that was the masterstroke is like whenever you realize that the kid is going to be the turn, and then in the end, when it says, oh, she just needs a new name, and it says mom, then it's like at all.
Speaker 3:that's where it really syncs up and you're like that's, that's what makes this unique.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that scene is so dramatic you know it's a Trey, you and the Empress, and they're talking about him, about him, and he's reading it, but he can't believe it.
Speaker 1:And they're like please do it, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh man, incredible scene. Okay, so he goes out. He finally says I'm going to shout, I'm going to all do it. Okay, I'll do it and I'll give you a name. And he opens up the window and it shouts the name, but it's, it's storming outside and you can't hear it.
Speaker 2:He says again I mean, I remember this my whole life. I did. I was like and I would take it back, we would rewind it. Oh yeah, we would sit there and look at it and try to figure it out. We could never figure out what he said, which I think is very intentional, right.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's again very smart. That's again what makes that work for me. If you get up and you're like Eloise, it's just. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it's going to be. Aside from that, the part that that would be a great name, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, we know it was his mom's name, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, betsy Lou who.
Speaker 2:But it's done so well too because it's not like Wayne's World where, like, the plane flies over and you just can't hear. No, yeah, no, no, no, you can hear him and you can see him it feels like you should be able to do it, it's just like you know it's just one thing I like tip your tongue style or you're like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Almost Is it this, but it's not.
Speaker 2:And you can never figure it out, so I watched it with subtitles this time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, no, yeah. What does he say? What are they doing with the subtitles?
Speaker 1:Oh, you watched it with subtitles because you watched it with Mallory, and I watched subtitles as well Because I think Mallon, oh yeah, me and my wife always watch subtitles, right, and I do too.
Speaker 2:Stuff, she got me into that, yeah, I love, I love.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's great, but I didn't for this one and I was not tracking, as that moment was coming, that it was going to be in front, because I, you know, I just had him there and it and then. So, when he ran to the window, I just stared at where the name was going to be yeah, I just stared at it, like it was even slow motion for me as Moon child comes up.
Speaker 2:So it says moon child.
Speaker 1:I stopped, I had to go back, so I'm like okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's worse. I don't buy that for one second so I go online and they're like, yeah, in the that in the book I think it's moon child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:Um gosh, and I still don't buy it.
Speaker 3:I that's worse, that's really disappointing, I wish they just said he screams intelligibly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something like that. Well, in German it's mood and kin.
Speaker 2:So, maybe that's the answer, maybe the mom's name, maybe that's a name in German or something, because to me it makes no sense, because we know that it's his mom's name.
Speaker 3:Yes, of course yes. So, oh, it's not his mom's name child. Yeah, it's not his mom's name. Everything that is good about that is completely erased. Yeah, it's just a lot. We know it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so it's so in the movie at least now now in the book it's mood and kind, so maybe maybe that makes sense in German.
Speaker 1:I don't know, but yeah, or maybe they just changed enough child of the moon, I think is technically what that would be, but like if you were to vent, because then that would be Kin. Does you know? Mulder? You know, but like so, but, if you're gonna be Mulder kind, it would be a name like, yeah, you know welcome to Matt fumbles through German. Yeah, you're welcome. Happy or flicks now in.
Speaker 1:German. Yeah, you know I just if they're gonna do that whole movie in German and then dub it in English, we're gonna do this whole thing German. Take all the synth out.
Speaker 2:I'm not satisfied with that answer if I don't know if we have listeners who'd make comments or anything. But I would love to hear anyone's perspective, because if you go online, they say basically say oh yeah, that's true, it is moonchild in the book. I'm gonna say that they change. I also know that they changed a lot in making the movie right enough to make the.
Speaker 3:Author hate it yeah.
Speaker 2:And also, the movie only covers half the book and then apparently the ending is completely different. The movie is completely different than the book. So, I'm gonna go ahead and think that I think this whole stuff with his mom, you know, and her name was probably for the movie.
Speaker 3:Sure yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, things don't line up, but you know.
Speaker 3:You're required to do subtitles and captions and things for like deliveries of films for, obviously for very good reasons, but there are moments like this that once a while arrives where it's it, you can't. You can't take the secondary Deliverable you hope that I mean. Oftentimes those are done by. I guarantee you, the director didn't subtitle this movie. No, you know what I mean. Like this was subtitled by, you know, and it's a company in Italy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, third, intern from the left at a contracting company, you know, I mean, and they pulled something. I'm probably 15 years after the movie. Yeah, exactly, it's like this is not see. You can't let things like that kill, because it obviously is the mom's name and Obviously that should have been handled. And if you're, that's really what there's such a bummer about this is. I bet there are a bunch, is a whole generation of, like you know, hearing impaired people who've been watching this movie and being like, oh yeah, this is super cool. Then they get to that moment they're like yeah, fuck this movie.
Speaker 2:Like what does the hell's moon child I mean? That's the thing that brings it all together. That, yeah, I mean. So that's not a lot for it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's like the song says say my name, say my name, you know when.
Speaker 3:No, one is around.
Speaker 1:You say baby, I love.
Speaker 3:you Say my name, say my name no, you skipped a little bit. No what? Did I skip if you ain't running game. Yeah, there you go I just wanted to hear how long you could go.
Speaker 1:It was not very far.
Speaker 3:Now do it in German.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, there have been the noise he should hike a product. I'm it, I'll see it.
Speaker 3:I'll stop okay, well, you're welcome. Hey, so did you guys see anybody who's left listening. Did you see this scene like when they're running down the a falcours, like chasing the, the, the bullies in the alleyway? Okay, again, the end of this movie here is so Okay, so great, so great.
Speaker 2:After all of the fantasia is destroyed and they have the little seed again, which is a very meaningful scene and and so impactful when I saw it as a kid. And there it's, one grain of sand is all that's left of Fantasia, you know, and they're just standing there in the dark, but it's Bastion.
Speaker 3:It's right, right I trade you.
Speaker 2:It's Bastion right, and that's the big difference here is now he's fully, he's come into the book and it's him. It's, he's not, he's not living through the character, it's him. And then he makes his first wish and he's instantly ride. It's him riding on Falcour, and so, seeing that, that again I'll use the word genius on this for a kid's perspective, because watching that is like the transference of that is now you get to ride, you got to see the hero do it, but now it's you. You know the kid, the real kid that, the kid that you identify with.
Speaker 3:This is like. This is why Star Wars world exists in the, in Disney land.
Speaker 1:Yeah and there's always like a distance, and that is like to like this is I'll be the third one to say this word about this movie the genius move it makes you know, and that is allowing the one who was reading it to be in it, and because it's not just, oh, I'm gonna write you in. No, you are it, you are central to this story happening. And then also like and I don't remember catching this, but as the Empress says to Bastion, you watched us like they are watching you right, yes, yeah, and I was like that's where it gets fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like I'm in the story For this. That's what's great about. That's what we're kind of saying here's like this Different about this movie is that's where it really strikes its own unique cord. Yes, these other things don't do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I. So I was talking about that tracking shot from like a technical aspect, because I don't know if it's a long follow shot and like a wide in an alleyway with things over at point yeah. I was like how did they accomplish this? Because you couldn't have done it with a helicopter, because there's too many things there's like bridges and stuff right over the top. They had to have done some kind of crazy cable rig or something.
Speaker 1:Cable Rig cable rig and this is at the beginning of green screening, like this is yeah, it was a shot on the largest blue screen at the time.
Speaker 2:So obviously Bastion and Falcor are different element of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what?
Speaker 2:they're seeing, but yeah, the shot itself flying through there I like.
Speaker 3:The perspective of the camera is pretty obviously is before drones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a long-ass cable.
Speaker 1:I did the same thing. I was like how did they, how did they? Yeah, put those two, three shots together right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was really sort of impressed by that. For sure, there are like a just a couple things that I like noticed that I want to bring up in this film. For sure, like I wrote down a note Shooting a trail on our tax, because then whenever they're flying on Falcor and he's like I was like that had to been a crazy day. Only in the 80s could he done this. And only later Did I find out that he fell off the horse and, like God, stepped on and I was like it's 100% on this shot yeah like hey, here, 10 year old, jump on this horse and just ride it off into the fucking wilderness Full Gallop.
Speaker 3:There's no one.
Speaker 2:There's no safety people within a thousand feet at least exactly yeah, hit the most man.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah, cuz that's why that shot was so wide.
Speaker 2:It was huge while we're still on this moment.
Speaker 1:Can I?
Speaker 2:really expect to the score again, Sure yeah sure again, the score are hearing again the childhood wonder of getting to ride Falcor yourself. Yes and then they bring it in with this. You know, this is like.
Speaker 3:I can love design.
Speaker 1:I can look like this is high.
Speaker 2:Take a look, okay, and then bashing go in it yet. With the fist in the air.
Speaker 1:With the dynasty strings underneath it. Oh yeah tonight on dynasty I.
Speaker 3:Just the score.
Speaker 2:That was really my big takeaway on this. Viewing as an adult was like the score was unchanged. It was, as good as I remember it, 100 yeah yeah, the score.
Speaker 1:It was just so transformative and I and the fact that it opened with, I mean it just brings you in immediately. It opens with one of the best songs in Cinematic history with the Abba D side.
Speaker 3:Yeah with the.
Speaker 2:Abba D side that was better than any of the A sides, so it took 25.
Speaker 3:Team of 25 people. I read to puppeteer Falcor 25 people, but only one for a rock binder. It's just a person, rock binder, it's just one person. Inside for the rock and take puppet seat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, I love that puppet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and apparently they were like doing all that to like to recorded vocal tracks. So they were like and I read the thing on there like they took them forever to perfect, like getting to know.
Speaker 2:I was like maybe some perfect my little.
Speaker 3:I mean, you get to get it close enough, I guess so this is Jim Henson's Creature Workshop right.
Speaker 1:Well, is it? No, cuz I don't think so, and I was having trouble finding that because he does, jim Henson does a never-ending story, part three.
Speaker 3:So there's players in this story and our buddy, jason, james Right, yes.
Speaker 2:There's players in this movie. I can't figure out their relationships. Steven Spielberg is one of them. Yes, it's like he's not. I don't think he's listed as a producer.
Speaker 1:And yeah, he's uncredited, right uncredited, and if you look, but he's held out in the movie and you know it says editor Spielberg uncredited, but that's it.
Speaker 2:That's the only credit he gets, and I think there's Jim Henson Involvement there has to well, but I just can't figure out what it is.
Speaker 3:I would be surprised by that, because I don't think these animatronics really hold up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they don't you know, you know it's two years later and think about how good. Yeah, exactly, jim.
Speaker 3:Henson stuff is usually just so over the top good even down to the imprecise, and while this is a lot of Interesting things happening, I would not call it precise. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it's a good point. The Okay, who was that? I'm trying to think, because I do want to talk about Gamork. Um, I also.
Speaker 2:I want to take it back to more left.
Speaker 1:We can yes, oh yeah, yoda the, but oh, who is it? Yeah, his name is Ui Dorico. He was the conceptual artist, the creature and Scenic designer, and now is no. That's how he's credited in the movie, but now is count, ui Dorico.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, he's a count.
Speaker 1:So he was the conceptual artist creature and the scenic designer. He had worked on flash Gordon in 1980, I believe, and then never ending story to like one of the only other people to come back for never ending story to.
Speaker 2:The guy in the bookstore yes, the guy coriander. Yes, yes, wilford brimley light. Okay, so more love. The big turtle yes, more love. Blew my mind as a kid the fact that he starts off as a hill that and then when he comes up and it's a turtle, like, yeah, I Remember seeing that and my mind was literally opened up like I did not know Something like that could happen. You know, like that that was a. I didn't understand, that that was a possibility, that was a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even in a fantasy element like that, that. You know, a change like that could happen in a movie. That's a great really blew my mind.
Speaker 1:I think, I think that's, yeah, let that not be lost, because I remember that too, because I I remember Him gut, and I'm like, oh, where's the entrance to more lives, layer where you know, or? Right, I was on the hill that you know he's on the hill, so there's got to be a hole or entrance, and then it starts to move and it, yeah, and then we talked about the sneezing already, but again, the desperation of that scene is so good and a tray.
Speaker 2:He's just getting dirtier and dirtier and covered in mud and climbing back up that tree right away every time so effective. And then I also love the character of Moorla. How apathetic he is.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I'm allergic to you, exactly like. How real is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he says I don't care, or you know, he speaks in the third right, so he says we don't care, and then he says we don't even care, that we don't care right. Complete apathy, which is what they're talking about with, like the nothing, right yeah?
Speaker 1:Well, that was another thing I tracked that like, had felt to me like a biblical thing. There's the book of Ecclesiastes, which is about nothing matters, that all, all is dust in the wind. That's actually where that comes from.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, and it is yeah, and so, like all, we do all of this under the Sun, and yet it is all dust and will fade away. That is the book of Ecclesiastes. It's a beautiful, and when I'm hearing her take say this, or him say this, or whatever the you know more or less say this, and I just immediately wrote, oh, none of that matters, that's what more or less says, none of that matters. I was like, oh my gosh, that is look legit, lifted right.
Speaker 2:And I didn't get this as a kid, but watching it now that was like the thing that was the most profound to me is like the perspective of that and and the you know the relation to that of like depression and you know, just getting down and not being feeling like you can't go further or feeling like you've lost everything or you Aren't doing well or whatever it is. It's that perspective right. It's like the nothing is coming. And you know the apathy of Morla, you know, or he's just like he doesn't care.
Speaker 3:He didn't want to try years.
Speaker 2:You know he's like you'll never get there anyway, don't right and you know, and a tray you sitting there saying that nothing's gonna come and get you too he has yeah whatever you know, I don't care I did take, nothing matters.
Speaker 3:He's a nihilist, he cares about not.
Speaker 2:Sounds exhausting.
Speaker 1:Well, and that made me think of immediately I Took a note about the themes and thinking about being children watching this, but also as an adult, like Reliving that perspective and I was like, oh, there's definitely themes of children not being taken seriously here.
Speaker 1:I'm for sure, I'm allergic to children you know, except you know, bastion, you need to buck up the Like, the scoffing at a tray you and a tray who says well, I'm a tray you, yeah, you know to go on this, and he's like but you're just a child and I'm like, good lord, could we go like, beat up this.
Speaker 2:You know, by the way, from a people whose Empress is a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, maybe that's why she's sick, you know.
Speaker 2:But again the store, like again, like watching it as a doll. You know, there's so many story elements that are just kind of like yeah, okay, they didn't matter.
Speaker 3:They did not matter to me and that's the thing about kids, children's I mean, and that's really what, oh. So one other thing here on the about that. I got one more thing. The special effects director, brian Johnson, said the 12 year old star Noah Hathaway was a bit of a pain apparently. Frankly, is very difficult for him to get anything out of him, and Bastion delivered all the time. He was just brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, this is a guy talking about a kid who got injured three times.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, it is the effects director, effects director, so I'm not sure how this is colored here, right?
Speaker 2:Speaking of colored, by the way, there he was supposed to be green.
Speaker 1:Yes, cut green.
Speaker 2:He was of the dream you was supposed to be of the green people, but I guess they tried it and it just looked like crap or something.
Speaker 1:I saw something that might have been test footage of it and apparently, yeah, they was like this doesn't work and of course, if this they're doing the big blue screen and green screen stuff it's sure and where did it try you go?
Speaker 3:Oh, we got an entire scene of a Falcor kick.
Speaker 1:Can we just talk about, okay, g'mork. I do want to like circle and talk about G'mork. So we have this in this story of like you go here and you learn this and we need you to do this and go. You know, and I keep we were talking about earlier skyside, side quest, side quest, side quest and then you get to G'mork at the end and it's chilling, chilling of this, just this face in the door of the dark looking yeah and then basically just tells him the truth, tells him everything that none of the other adults were telling him like, and he's yes, he's using it for nefarious reasons.
Speaker 1:He's not actually doing it because truth and love is the only way truth exists and the only way love exists. If you Separate them to, you can beat people up with one and you become a hallmark card with the other, but together you get like that's, that's actual truth, that's actual love. And he's only doing one of them right. He's beating him up with the truth, with the facts of what Fantasia is. And I'm going, the only one who's speaking any sense in this whole damn movie is the villain and he's about to destroy him, or you know, literally yeah, yeah again.
Speaker 2:I got to bring that back to. It's like to me watching at this time. It's like G'mork, is that voice in your head? You know, yeah, who. A lot of the stuff that the voice in your head tells you is based in truth. You know, right, you did fuck those things up. You know you are. These are your weak points, yeah, but you know that it's being used.
Speaker 2:You know it's a blood to a place to, to bring you down and just to put you into apathy and to put you in a, you know, a depressed state.
Speaker 1:So I mean, that's the magic, if you will, going back to what Tolkien talks about with dragons, like being able to speak and I mean they even do that in Game of Thrones as well. Part of the magic of the dragon is like it puts you under a spell. There's all these truths that come out about yourself that make you just feel awful, and Gamork does this to you, know, atreyu, and it's just it's-.
Speaker 2:But devastating it was. I remember it being completely terrifying that scene, starting with just the art design of that scene. Yeah, that's how atreyu goes through there and he starts seeing all the girls and they're old but they're of him, all the stuff that he's done, and they've obviously been painted long ago, but they're all the things that he did. Again that's like a level of deepness that, like my little kid mind was just like wait what Like.
Speaker 1:I was. I was blunt, my mind was blown.
Speaker 2:How could that be? You know how is that possible? You know like they're dealing with levels of things. Again, talking about like. That brings it back to like Bastion being involved in writing the own story. As it's going, it's like these are concepts that as a kid, were you know, I had not thought of before. It's like the first time I was seeing these things. You know, that's so scary. And then the last. Oh, then he gets to the last portrait, and it's of Gamork.
Speaker 1:Right. And then he turns around and it's Gamork. Gamork is right there, and that's a pretty junky puppet.
Speaker 3:I think we'll all say, like it's a junky puppet.
Speaker 2:But they did a good job at keeping him silhouetted in the darkness.
Speaker 3:They did the best they could with what they had.
Speaker 2:I think Right, and then the Hymston there and talking like that too, yeah, like that was very effective, like the way they did that, yeah, and I guess that brings me to a question Like if we want to go esoteric on this for a minute. Cause. Why not? We haven't done that. Oh sorry, Okay.
Speaker 1:Sorry Is. So I wrote this note. You know it's like, of course we know this movie is about grief, right, and among other things. And I just you know I was like, okay, so Fantasia is humanity's imagination, right, so it has, technically, should have no boundaries. That's why you can't pass it. And that's brilliantly written and like the nothing is, you know, the loss of the dreams and hopes that are manifested.
Speaker 1:And then Gork, gamork isn't so much evil as and so I'm wrestling with this, so is Gamork not so much evil as it is? Gamork is pain and suffering, that, and then decides to be evil. And what I mean by that is, like in the experiencing cause. We know this from our life, just because we, you know it's like it is sometimes in that experiencing of pain and suffering and loss that we do understand what is actually true. And then you know, otherwise we'll give over to the quote opiate of our imagination, all the good fluffy stuff, and be lost in there forever and not deal with the real things that hurt. But you know, and we'll be lost in a fantastic world of riddles and in good intentions. And then there's Gork and you're like, what do I do with this? Like, is it evil, or is it just taking the things that are real to us pain and suffering and doing evil things with it?
Speaker 2:Is that? You know what I mean? Yeah, I think there's a lot's unpacked there, but I will say I think of Mark as evil because he says he admits during his monologue I'm here to that. He's here to help the nothing. I'm a servant. I'm a servant of the nothing and I want to help it because I want people to lose their you know, lose their ambitions, because they're easy to control.
Speaker 2:So I think, there's many and, like you know, we can talk about good and evil all day everyone can. But my thing when I think about evil is what I think is evil is people who do shitty things for a profit.
Speaker 1:Yeah sure, and the profit in this case would be power. Yeah, and he says it.
Speaker 2:He says I want to help them because I want to be able to control people who've lost their ambition. So I think that's straight up evil, yeah all right, that was my question.
Speaker 1:Is he an instrument of evil or is he evil? And if that makes sense, well, these both.
Speaker 3:I think he's both. Okay all right?
Speaker 1:Well, it's like cause on another episode for our listeners. If you want to listen to a cuckoo's nest, we kind of we'd talk about that briefly, about Nurse Ratchet, the episode with Tim.
Speaker 2:Murphy, tim Murphy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so if you, haven't listened to that, definitely go. It's a really deep. It's a dark episode cause it's cuckoo's nest, but also like who she is, and but anyway, so I what do you guys think this, or maybe this is too big of a question? What is this movie about?
Speaker 3:No, it's not too big of a question at all. This, I think, this movie for me, is about, you know, recognizing that feet on the ground doesn't have to mean not head in the sky. You know what I mean that you can be pragmatic while still having imagination. Imagination is the pathway to healthy, happy, you know. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2:It's like you know, message to parents. It's like okay, the kid's not doing well in math. Like, okay, like help him with his math, but like he can also draw unicorns.
Speaker 3:It's okay to draw unicorns, Right yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, he doesn't have to do one or the other, you know. He needs to pass his math test, but don't tell him not to draw unicorns man.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly, yeah, what's?
Speaker 2:he's into what's he's into? He's into drawing unicorns, that's it.
Speaker 1:Well, and I guess that kind of like floats along with what I was thinking, because it is and I mentioned it's a story of grief. How do you process grief? How do we process loss? Because there's obvious, we start with loss at the beginning of the movie and I think that is the honoring of where we are, or where someone is, especially a child, in how they deal with it. So the father might be right yes, you have to go to school, that is important. But yes, so are these unicorns. They're just as important, you know, and so are your dreams. Oh, you had a dream about mom. Let me stop making my orange, julius, and come sit down and be with you for a minute.
Speaker 1:That egg is gonna be, just as raw as it was when.
Speaker 2:I started Full circle. We've come full circle, Full circle here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know. That just made me think about that and I guess also too, do you wanna ask what the question you?
Speaker 3:like to ask. Yeah, we always get asked the questions. So I guess, for you guys, does the film hold up? For you guys?
Speaker 2:So you know, I think it's a hard answer for me on this one, because I think it's an incredibly impactful movie, but you know what's your definition of is?
Speaker 3:You know like.
Speaker 2:I always say, like, I like to think, a barometer of like does it hold up? Means to me, Like, if you show it to someone who doesn't have nostalgia for it, you know, will it still be good. And I think that's probably a no on this one. Like you know, I don't know. I would like to see, I would love to hear, if a kid saw this today, if they would be completely in love with it. I don't know if an adult who sees it today is who doesn't know it, you know is going to be in love with it, like I am. And it's gonna be that meaningful. It's hard for me to say because, like I said throughout this show, it's like so much of this movie, even now when I'm watching it. The reason it's impactful is because I'm remembering how impactful it was for me when I was a kid.
Speaker 2:So I'm watching a lot of and I'm seeing a lot of the faults now, as an adult, in it. So does it hold up for me? Absolutely 100%. I watched it as a kid, I loved it, and I watched it as a young adult and again it blew my mind. And I watch it now and it still blew my mind in a lot of ways. They're tied to nostalgia. So it holds up for me. I'm not sure if it really holds up, you know.
Speaker 3:As a piece. What about you?
Speaker 1:Matt. Oh man, that was a lot to think about and it's because it is hard to like pull it away. That's the whole point of why we talk about the movies that we love is the nostalgia. The nostalgia holds up 100%. I absolutely loved rewatching this. It felt great, Every scene. Like we said, I wanted it to be three times as long. The movie was over too soon. I absolutely loved it. So, on that end, yes, it holds up. Do the special effects hold up? Most of them don't. Is the puppetry great? No, Is you know? Are the characters?
Speaker 1:real well fleshed out? No, can I see all the influences of other authors and storylines? Yes, it's right on the surface. Am I grossed out by Falcours back? Yes, that does not hold up, but I think as a whole for what it means to be a nostalgic movie.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think you know I thought I was gonna have a real hot take on this one. But yeah, I mean it depends on when you watch this movie. If you watch this movie when you're kid, it holds up for you if you like it Me on this watch I don't think this movie really holds up. I think the other movies do similar things or they do the same thing better. The big, big, big win of this movie is that end sequence, and that does make it have redeeming value. I just think there are more magical journeys to go on that'll give you a similar sort of experience. So, for the first time ever, I'm gonna say like I think this movie is good if you loved it, but I don't think it's one that I will consider. Well, you know, I don't think I'll consider it holding up for me in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would love for if somebody knows of a movie like it. But I would love for someone to go back and actually kind of redo this because of the end of what you're saying, 100% there is a great, great, great, great movie in here. Yes.
Speaker 3:It's just. I don't think this is the definitive version of it.
Speaker 2:I will say you know. Part of this movie's charm and magic, though is kind of how it's imperfect.
Speaker 1:That you see the seams.
Speaker 2:And that it's brave in a way that it tried a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, completely. And it was the most expensive movie in Germany's history.
Speaker 2:It was but you know what I mean. It's not cookie cutter, it's bold, it's inventive, it's creative, it's imaginative. It fucking swung for the fence at all sorts of stuff. Yes, and I think that's where it lands in that in our imaginations as kids you know what I mean it was completely successful. But yeah, I mean it was weird, it was out there, and when you get out there, it's like you're very close to being either genius or bad, and to that point I would be hard pressed to say I think otherwise.
Speaker 1:But I think every actor in this movie is in the same movie. Yeah, that's true, Like they are in the same movie, and it's amazing too, like especially.
Speaker 2:Crazy enough, since it's Fantasia.
Speaker 1:they're all different people from different worlds, but somehow there is a cohesion in all of them that really holds, and a Trey U, I mean a Trey U and Bastion Bastion.
Speaker 2:Their performances.
Speaker 1:And the Empress. I mean all their performances, those three specifically, of course, just they are.
Speaker 2:I think those are the only three people in the movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, so I just love it. I can't wait for. I can't wait for someone to find it and do it again, but if it can be done, I thought you were gonna say you can't wait for part two or three. I can't wait for part three. Let's go to part three, everybody.
Speaker 3:Oh, man, james, always great to have you man. Yeah, man, thank you guys very much for being here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. Let's go on a sea movie. Let's go on a sea movie, let's go on a sea movie.
Speaker 3:Let's go on a sea movie. Let's go on a sea movie. Let's go on a sea movie. Let's go on a sea movie. Let's go on a sea movie.